Let us Anticipate "Call Me By Your Name"

I have not seen this, but I was treated to a fairly long and detailed review/synopsis from my father in law, who, in a thick israeli accent raved about how it was "very beautiful" and was emphatic that "Everyone should see this movie! It's very important! No one who sees this movie can think there is anything wrong with homosexuals! It's the same feelings!"

god, i love this film and don't agree with any of your objections. Moonlight is an extremely poor film but the first third has very good things in it. imo, complaining about dialogue/characterisation and referring to that as insulting then ending your point by using the phrase "his young, cute, rich, confident, starved-for-cock whiteness" is, incredibly, gross. really a horrible thing to write.

Italy looked ugly

whaaaat

yea wow definitely not i mean they weren't in Rome but damn

saw The Shape of Water yesterday and was stoked to see Michael Stuhlbarg again so soon.

brought the feelings. idyllic to the point of briefly enchanting one into thinking one might want and be able to fuck off to the country indefinitely. Loved hearing Phrygian Gate and China Gate on the soundtrack. Not Jewish enough—Armie Hammer's goyische ass saying "my bubbe". Chalamet is an ethereal beauty and his character's twirling and thoughtless physicality made me feel old and tired.

p sure he's Jewish

sufjan in the trailer for this really put me off

My apologies.

I did enjoy how he was styled exactly like my dad, other than he had cooler sneakers and no mustache

I wonder if flamboyant goon would have liked the film better if it somehow showed that the characters were "mediocre" and didn't deserve beautiful, romantic summers in Italy. I am sympathetic to the view that the film uncritically shows how zestful life can be if one is rich, white, and cultivated, but why does that mean it's bad? Why, conversely, does the fact that Moonlight showed how black life is traumatic and constrained mean it was good? I'm not sure what I think about these questions but can say that I was prepared not to like CMBYN precisely because I suspected it would romanticize being white, privileged, and beautiful (and b/c I'm predisposed to scoff at earnest love stories) but was ultimately won over, whereas I found Moonlight a bit unimpressive. I'm not sure if this is just because I'm white (but maybe!).

oh yeah the score was great

I wonder if flamboyant goon would have liked the film better if it somehow showed that the characters were "mediocre" and didn't deserve beautiful, romantic summers in Italy.

Can’t say for sure, but maybe? I definitelée would have preferred the gays in this film having some relationship to their environment

I am sympathetic to the view that the film uncritically shows how zestful life can be if one is rich, white, and cultivated, but why does that mean it's bad?

Because: this lack of criticality is the definition of white privilege, where people are allowed to inhabit their luxury (and even complain about it!) without understanding the structures that allow these person’s privilege to exist. Sorry, but if the story is just “a story about rich White gays interacting only with their wealth and whiteness” then I can’t get on board

Why, conversely, does the fact that Moonlight showed how black life is traumatic and constrained mean it was good?

The thesis of Moonlight imo is that black gay life is beautiful and empathetic and kind (despite trauma and constraint)

I'm not sure what I think about these questions but can say that I was prepared not to like CMBYN precisely because I suspected it would romanticize being white, privileged, and beautiful (and b/c I'm predisposed to scoff at earnest love stories) but was ultimately won over, whereas I found Moonlight a bit unimpressive. I'm not sure if this is just because I'm white (but maybe!).

I don’t know! I think CMBYN did exactly what you suspected it did

Moonlight was at best okay and a nice try; I couldn't connect w/it precisely because this kind of misery bores me at this point in my life.

Anyway, in my review I explained the many ways in we (and movies) can be queer.

Loving this conversation, and the timing: I just saw this last night and have been trying to work through my feelings--particularly, my indifference--re: it, and this convo has been nudging me in some productive directions.

My husband hated the film precisely because he hated Oliver. Basically, he saw Oliver's treatment of Elio as cruel, exploitive and (in the peach scene) humiliating, and argued that men like Oliver are the reason too many gay kids are so fucked up by they reach 25. I'd argue that the relationship is a little more complicated than that (Oliver has his own issues, for starters) but I understand how Oliver's treatment of Elio made the film a difficult watch for him. Between my husband's reaction to the film and goon's, it is interesting to see the variety of responses that the film is triggering in some of its queer viewers. The complexity of these responses has definitely been more thoughtful, to me, than most of the uniform praise that the film has been receiving from critics; as Morbs pointed out, 2017 saw a wide variety of queer films, so why is it the James Ivory-scripted doomed romance between two wealthy, pretty white gay boys the one that critics (both the hetero and homo ones) are all over? Not having seen BPM, God's Own Country or some of the others, yet, I can't really offer an answer, but I have my suspicions.

by the time Call Me By Your Name ends, with Chalamet caught in a heartbreaking closeup for minutes, we sense that it’s Elio who’s made up his mind about himself and Oliver the confused old thing requiring direction.

this is wonderful. the whole piece is lovely, Alf.

Wow, he thought Oliver humiliated him in the peach scene?! Oliver was impressed by Elio's dirty mind!

Elio is clearly embarrassed in the moment, and Oliver presses him on it. If you're already in an anti-Oliver frame of mind while watching the film, I can understand how the scene plays this way.

(which is to say, I think that "Oliver is callously humiliating Elio" and "Oliver is impressed by Elio's dirty mind" can both be true)

It's also one of the few moment in the film when Oliver is in control over Elio.

Can’t say I’m impressed with the direction this thread has taken in the wake of ftgi’s — and I say this as someone who did basically like the film — lucid and empathetic takedown.

All in all, I liked the film OK, but I'm finding the more impassioned responses (positive and negative) to the film more interesting to discuss than my basic reaction of "that was pretty, but I wasn't as moved as I expected to be" one.

BPM, God's Own Country, Paris 05:59: Théo & Hugo, all of which I like as much or more than CMBYN, got less attention because they're "foreign" films without recognizable names (Chalamet isn't a household word either but he's in the hit Lady Bird) or distributional muscle.

This film is not as boring as porn.

Chalamet was my favourite thing about the movie. Or rather, Chalamet's little twirls and dances were. I certainly wouldn't object to an Oscar for him, though I'm assuming the academy will once again be unable to resist the British actor imitating the famous dead person.

my basic reaction of "that was pretty, but I wasn't as moved as I expected to be" one.

Kinda my reaction too. I had a good time watching it, but it didn't match the novel. I think for me it mainly comes down to dissatisfaction with the film's Oliver, or feeling like I couldn't fully project myself into Elio's perception of him the way I could in the book.

I would agree with that. For one thing, Hammer came off more convincing lecturing on apricots than he did trying to subtly convey emotion.

Oliver's pretty stiff in the novel too, which is the point, I think: objects of desire bore everyone else. Elio's attracted to Oliver's aloofness, and the film makes this clear too. That's the point of the Psychedelic Furs sequences -- he's a white guy to the core.

The "Love My Way" pair of scenes were interesting for the ways in which they mirror each other all too closely, foreshadowing the film's conclusion. The second one is where Oliver should finally invite Elio to dance with him, but instead he just plucks another woman off the street.

I should've noted in my review that when Oliver coaxes Elio into shaking the busted statue's hand I wondered, "Which is stiffer?"

objects of desire bore everyone else

I can dig it.

I might have to regrettably watch this film again. My bf and I were groaning at literally every line of dialogue, we were so shocked that this had been greenlit... but I haven't felt so out-of-step with popular opinion of a script since Rian Johnson's "Brick"

(Or Gregg Araki's "Mysterious Skin", two similar movies to CMBYN in that my takeaway is that "the only reason you guys like these movies is because you wanna see JGL's ass")

I haven't felt so out-of-step with popular opinion of a script since Rian Johnson's "Brick"j.

now we're so in step I'm walking on your footprints on the sand.

Brick's way overrated

though I'm assuming the academy will once again be unable to resist the British actor imitating the famous dead person.

ugh seriously? i mean i know he's gonna get a token nomination but does anyone really think Oldman is gonna win for is OK performance in a totally shit movie? I assumed they would give it to DDL (Franco being the dark horse).

DDL has three of them already -- unless the Academy wants to crown him the new Katherine Hepburn.

Oldman has the "buzz" but Chalamet has swept just about every precursor critic awards. Tonight's the Golden Globes, so.

fgti, what is your favorite film about white twink(s)?

I liked the film whilst finding Oliver somewhat superficial and exploitative.

@ Dr Morbius, I can't really think of any. The only realistic narrative depiction of a twink I can think of is Racky from "Pages From Cold Point"-- nothing else captures the narcissism and the entitlement

(A white twink, that is. I like "Y Tu Mama Tambien" and "Happy Together")

I once assigned "Pages..." in class about 12 years ago and chickened out at the last minute.

nothing is worse than Y Tu Mama Tambien

Great (Portuguese) twink movie that no one has seen: The Way He Looks

nothing is worse than Y Tu Mama Tambien

― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), S

except your inchoate animosity toward it

man that psychedelic furs song has been stuck in my head ever since i saw this movie yesterday afternoon and now i can't stop listening to it

It's been 16 years since I saw YTMT and I'm beyond certain I underrated it.

I love "Pages From Cold Point" so much, most accurate representation of a young white twink ever

I'm not gonna stan for "Y Tu Mama Tambien", I just felt it was the right balance of sexual titillation in a movie that was actually about other stuff

And "Happy Together" was perfect because Wong gives you the sex scene right off the top and then it's all about gay psychology, a perfect gay film imo

Curious to see how you'll react to The Ornithologist.

Brought up the "what's some good white twink content" with my bf last night and he said The Outs, which I haven't seen