Class and race: enemies of creativity in pop?

The good thing is more and more citizens (one hopes) are becoming aware of the big lie that we're all one big happy middle class, contrary to what Hollywood movies and the Top Ten Countdown would have us believe. I've had to undergo more than one academic "sensitivity training" seminar focussing on problems between the races, but if the word "class" was ever mentioned, the moderators would quickly change the subject. Though I am by all appearances white, I feel closer in some ways to Exhibit A growing up on welfare (well, what's left of it) in a black or Hispanic or Cambodian housing project than to Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey, or even your typical SUV- driving Lawnboy-riding suburbanite--and a long, long of any race--and a long, long way indeed from our own King George II and his oil empire. Also a long way from any pop stars who might like to think they're "expressing the hurt you feel, man." I grew up on welfare myself, but I guess the major difference is I somehow managed to get an education, albeit I owe my soul (as do so many scholars and artists) to the U. S. Student Loan offices. I guess this is why no matter how much I despise Eminem and pop stars in general I can understand why so many poor white kids latch on to his identification with black urban culture (both the good and the very bad).

In America we get the great majority of our cultural intake from Los Angeles, New York, and (a distant third) London. This is true no matter where you grow up; my contemporaries and I grew up almost completely unaware of my hometown's German and Irish and American Indian heritage, thanks to TV, movies, and rock music. Though Mississippi River water ran through our veins and we once had a Socialist for mayor, silly pop songs and sitcoms buzzed in our heads and motivated our adolescent rebellion or lack thereof. (So maybe mass media is the great equalizer! As long as it's dumb enough.)

So, I don't know if race or class are the most important things that "get in the way of creativity," but I certainly know money is the only thing that buys you the time to create; therein might lie your answer... Sorry to lead this topic even further astray, Master Momus--but there's one last question which I'd love to ask you: What of the Japanese once-despised Ainu population (now less than one hundred individuals, I read the other day), and what of Japan's "untouchable" class? Are they considered "middle class," too, and do they reap its benefits? Do they listen to Lolitapop, watch "Survivor," and eat McSushi? You're the expert, so speak on, oh wise one (I say without a trace of irony).

(and I'm listening to Eve's "Cowboy", and I want to kill myself. Then don't. Then do. Then do/n't.)

Thanks for the kind words again, Robin!

Another day older and deeper in debt...

People in London have a real downer about the sewn-up-ness of things right now because it's pushing up the cost of living faster than some can cope. It's really bad being priced out while feeling that this is the result of secret handshakes, etc. - instead of more basic reasons like having/not having talent or a particular gift for communication. This kind of stress is probably bad for creativity, which is why music and art here seem to be stagnating, or getting transfusions on import, or subsidies from well-off relatives. Fashion: really only do-able now if you can benefit from some kind of nepotism or patronage from New Feudalist system (just ask Stella McCartney). Our brave new multicultural world is still subject to the same old crap about origins and class - I wish I could put these issues to one side and get on with actually creating stuff but the agendas of others trying to profit from creative people or found a new corporate structure based on their labours are dictating these new, unsatisfactory terms. We're actually much closer here to the end of racism in cosmopolitan areas than news reports suggest, but this is being replaced by haves v. have-nots problems. Just ask anyone in Oxford Circus on May Day.

Maybe in Japan music (and related product) is an aspirational means of escape from the conformity inherent in the rest of the society, at least on the surface, done with less fuss because there's less for a large, moneyed middle class with recreational outlets to fuss about. And where one person sees consensus, like Momus, another will see a blinkered conformist bent. However, Japanese people of my acquaintance are just as capable of bitching about trustafarians as anyone else - the Japanese in London for two big exhibits are all annoyed about stinking rich Zen artist (and Bjork ripper-offer) Mariko Mori! And the designer Koji Mizutani, spurred to create by Tokyo student activism of 30 years ago, told me trendy Japanese are too busy shopping for new toys and clothes to be concerned about the inequalities in their own society, never mind anywhere else. But they're no different from those with privilege anywhere that takes Visa.

forthcoming WWF presentation - those people who work for their money vs. those people whose money works for them - im the renegade stakeholda with 'mr pointy' sharpened.

'marx iz good on production but we iz inna consumer age'

Is this a means of suggesting that people in metropolitan areas are more aware of the internet than the rest of us?

I don't believe that's true.

I think it's safe to say that no matter where most of the people posting here actually do live, they inhabit an abstract cosmopolitan space thanks to the wonders of what is now cheap, accessible technology. This should be liberating and creative rather than divisive and didactic. It may also act as a palliative/distraction for conscientious objector types to an outside world in the grip of New Feudalist madness.

Suzy: I agree entirely. I've always objected very strongly to neo- feudalist attempts to "own" the internet, to control a cultural space that should be there for all. I couldn't agree more with your feelings on capitalist dynastic succession and underwriting, and I've always tried to find another way. Quite naturally my greatest anger towards them is when they try to colonise what was born democratic.

I initially suspected Paul was a joke. I fear not, however, though rest assured that I am unconnected if he is. I couldn't imagine (read: wouldn't want to depress myself by imagining) such attitudes, but the internet is bound to surprise us. I'd be far more frustrated by it if it didn't; rather the Pauls of this world than neo-feudal colonisation.

And yes, the forum is 'censored'. It's a private message board. I try to be open about the reasons. Stuff that gets deleted includes: personal abuse not linked to any music-related points, repeat posts when I catch them, posting under other people's e-mail address, racial or homophobic abuse, threats, etc. etc. So for instance you won't see Paul's mutterings about "crushing [Robin's] career" here for much longer.

yadda yadda.....

x0x0

As you may notice, there have been some posts deleted from the end of this thread. 'paul' or whatever you answer to, stop being a cockfarmer on our nice message board. Everyone else, please try not to respond to stuff like this.

(There were a few posts deleted which sort of made points relevant to the whole thread, in an effort to relate the cockfarming back to the topic at hand. I'm sorry to remove those contributions, but thought it was best since so many surrounding posts were removed.)

I wonder how long this is going to be on the thread!

*stands up on soap box*

the story will not be rewritten........................

Momus, what exactly do you mean by 'race' here?

-- Richard Tunnicliffe, Tuesday, 8 May 2001 00:00 (6 years ago)

genuinely good thread

READ THIS

As you may notice, there have been some posts deleted from the end of this thread. 'paul' or whatever you answer to, stop being a cockfarmer on our nice message board. Everyone else, please try not to respond to stuff like this.

(There were a few posts deleted which sort of made points relevant to the whole thread, in an effort to relate the cockfarming back to the topic at hand. I'm sorry to remove those contributions, but thought it was best since so many surrounding posts were removed.)

-- Josh (ILM Moderator), Tuesday, 15 May 2001 00:00 (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

^^^this dude was jokes

The initial post in this thread is ridiculously stupid. Artists explore issues relating to their personal lives and world; race and class happen to be big parts of that.

Would art be better if humans didn't make it?

The point was merely that race and class are over-used as themes or issues in UK music. Japan was not a particularly good comparison but still.

this is a great thread but i think the initial q was pretty dumb

quel surprise