Would you eat the soup in this painting?

(I'd still eat the soup btw)

That picture just took me vividly back to being maybe nine years old and viewing this in the National Gallery of Scotland, Edinburgh on a school trip. Amazing clarity.

I remember a joke being told concerning van Gogh meeting his brother in the pub, and the brother offering him a pint...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xh_IlJj0hqY

Hell no

the gold coins are spanish : https://goo.gl/images/aJ16Fk

better zoom here https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Keukenstuk_(bodegón)_Rijksmuseum_SK-A-2962.jpeg

I understand what people are saying about the style but the guy looks like a minor character from Don Quixote and I'd say all things considered the setting is Spain whoever the artist

Vegetarian at the moment so no, not these days. But nothing wrong with a bit of czernina.

There is a specific historic ethno-sectarian context to this question that would get u assaulted on my island fyi

Why would a painter include a pack of cards, if not to say: "You're taking a gamble if you eat any of this guy's wares"?

Eat the man, sell the meat, pour the blood sacrifice on the altar.

ya habsburg spain makes sense come to think of it

they wanna put their money on display so they put a bunch of meat

old school ways dictated you be fat to look healthy and well-fed

and the empire had spread itself across half the globe so exotic birds on the table would also fit into this

the painting is like a humblebrag except they get a highly skilled nobody, probably paid him close to nothing, that can't catch a break, kinda like miguel de cervantes

man habsburg spain really was the original evil corporation wasn't it

i think his togs look more spanish than dutch (tho this is not my area of expertise)

every time i relook at the picture i want to eat the soup more, i think it may actually be reminding me of a soup i had in france when i was a kid which i guess i really liked (bcz i know exactly what i think it tastes like, tho can't quite parse this into a flavour or ingredients)

wait, which are the exotic birds there? there are pigeons in spain

or maybe just lots of meats

i'm not an ornithologist but the two bottom fellas don't look like regular pigeons

one looks like a duck and i don't think spain used ducks in its cuisine at that time at least, but ducks are/were a thing in latin america, with the muscovy duck (the little dude doesn't look like one though) originating from there

just spitballin

if the bowls are Delftware, then maybe this rich Spaniard is showing them off / if the orange was hard to get in Holland in 1610, maybe this rich Dutch guy is showing them off
Spanish coins: could still be a Dutch trader. Maybe the kind of cheese or pie (with a hole in the side?) is typically Spanish or Dutch?

this is like So Not Gonna Happen all over again but different

infinity, i was going by the wikipedia list upthread: "poultry, quails, a duck… a pigeon"

ducks are certainly native to spain -- you find some type of duck p much everywhere you find humans i think, as long as there's the right kind of water -- and duck is certainly a thing in arabic cuisine, which is not irrelevant to spanish cuisine

also didn't it take like 3 months to get from south america to spain? that duck is not an unrefrigerated 3-month duck

as per the description on wikipedia here: poultry, quails, a duck, a turkey, fish, a mackerel, cheese, pastries, bread rolls, sausages, hams, a pigeon, a sea bream and a pig's trotter (source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Keukenstuk_(bodeg%C3%B3n)_Rijksmuseum_SK-A-2962.jpeg)

when i said exotic, i thought it was clear i was talking specifically about the aspects of spanish cuisine, not whether duck was native to spain

of course there are ducks everywhere, however duck in spanish cuisine is pretty much nonexistent, especially pigeon, because the latter is seen as the rats of the bird family

i see now the other fella down there is actually a turkey:

The turkey is a large bird in the genus Meleagris, which is native to the Americas.

outside of the context of this painting, i think it would be important to know that duck is a thing in arabic cuisine (i did not know this), due to al andalus, etc., sure

but i think the inclusion of various ingredients popular in "new world" cuisine makes a difference

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastronom%C3%ADa_de_Espa%C3%B1a#Un_%C2%ABNuevo_Mundo%C2%BB_de_ingredientes

A mediados del siglo XVI entró el tomate en tierras españolas procedente de los aztecas (América), siendo Castilla el primer paso de entrada al resto de Europa, debido al monopolio que poseía sobre el transporte de productos provenientes del Nuevo Mundo.14​ Aparece en la lista de plantas provenientes del Nuevo Mundo del códice Historia general de las cosas de la Nueva España.15​ La primera referencia al cultivo del tomate en España data del año 1777. Se debe al padre Gregorio de los Ríos, quien publica una obra titulada Agricultura de jardines, que trata de la manera que se han de criar, gobernar y conservar las plantas y todas las demás cosas que para esto se requieren, dando a cada una su punto.11​ Aparecen igualmente en 1608 documentos, en forma de listas de la compra para el Hospital de la Sangre en Sevilla, que indican la presencia de tomates y pepinos para la elaboración de ensaladas.16​ Entre 1645 y 1646 el pintor sevillano Bartolomé Esteban Murillo realiza una obra denominada La cocina de los ángeles, en la que se muestra la preparación de un plato con tomates.

Algunos autores fijan un cierto declive en la cocina española a comienzos del siglo XVIII con la subida al trono español de Felipe V,2​ debido quizás a un excesivo «afrancesamiento» de los gustos y las formas de cocinar. A pesar de ello existen autores como Francisco Martínez Motiño, que publica a finales del siglo XVIII un libro sobre repostería.17​ El gusto por comer queda reflejado en obras literarias de la época, como ciertos pasajes del Don Quijote de la Mancha, La Lozana Andaluza y otros.

sorry, the english version does not have these details

so it mostly says plants and herbs were being used after spain reached the americas, but it references the florentine codex, which also has a chapter dedicated to birds and ducks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florentine_Codex)

it says spanish cuisine was heavily influenced by the florentine codex and with philip v, spain's cuisine became heavily frenchified, which would make sense why pigeon and duck are there, which can be used to make pate

of course there are cultural errors in this painting, but this is probably because it was a poorly commissioned project given to a minor painter, i think this is what complicates things and why there are different theories as to why this was painted and what is being represented here. it looks like a failed attempt at something though

this painting doesn't seem to be too preoccupied with representing reality as it is, hence there are no rotting turkeys, but trying to send a political message, in my opinion, because being frenchified was, like what i quoted said, seen as a decline in spanish culture

voted yes cos got to stay hydrated and whatever is in the bowl is probably 1000% safer than any readily available contemporary drinking water

huh.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1366/562283586_cc1dca74e6_b.jpg

how bout this one

maybe this is the 1610 version of the Tide pod challenge and he's going to eat EVERYTHING

yeah, i didn't get that's how you were meaning exotic, sorry

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

we all agree to abide by the results of the poll right? like if "yes" wins we have to eat the soup

There could be Spanish coins in Holland until Holland became independent, possibly that might be an angle. I don't know whether or how much coinage travelled between countries at that time. Given the pre-eminence of Spain it would make sense for Spanish coinage to be widespread, perhaps.

ya habsburg spain makes sense come to think of it

they wanna put their money on display so they put a bunch of meat

The thing with this whole still-life genre of painting is you're never quite sure if it's meant to be saying all this is vanity, or rather look at all this stuff we've got. The inclusion of the enigmatic chef really threw me for six in this particular case. There's no chef to be found in Josefa de Alaya's painting of the lamb, or in this typical vanitas from the Dutch School:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bb/7b/cc/bb7bcc24ff192d0779606e09d40abd58.jpg

^ This painting perhaps deserves its own poll.

https://media.mutualart.com/Images/2015_10/27/04/040630357/b6ea2fdd-d19b-41af-ad26-aec54c6065ce_570.Jpeg

i think his togs look more spanish than dutch (tho this is not my area of expertise)

It looks like a fairly standard doublet with baggy shirt underneath to me. His facial hair looks out of step with the Spanish fashion but that might just mean he isn't wealthy.

we all agree to abide by the results of the poll right? like if "yes" wins we have to eat the soup

Absolutely. Those who vote yes will receive a PM from me with instructions on where to find the soup.

I still think it’s blood

when I saw the soup, I didn't think "look at this decadent soup made of dirty water and blood. but what is the point. we're all going to die." I thought "no way would I ever eat that dingleberry's ass-tamarind chutney."

He might not like being called a dingleberry. Just saying.

i'd never vocalize that thought in his presence. i've seen ghostbusters ii.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

wow

...wow!

would you eat the poll results

Is this an ilx first

Nope!

an important poll about HARPER'S magazine

Think the write in explanations should be treated as a tiebreaker

wanna end this prophylactic tour

Fucking hell. I've only gone and done it.

the look on that man's face, he knew the poll would end up like this. he's offering the soup only to mock us. we are doomed to remain frozen, forever on the threshold.

remember, your vote counts.

we need a thread for terrribly drawn/painted musical instruments