Not all messages are displayed:
show all messages (86 of them)
infinity, i was going by the wikipedia list upthread: "poultry, quails, a duck… a pigeon"
ducks are certainly native to spain -- you find some type of duck p much everywhere you find humans i think, as long as there's the right kind of water -- and duck is certainly a thing in arabic cuisine, which is not irrelevant to spanish cuisine
also didn't it take like 3 months to get from south america to spain? that duck is not an unrefrigerated 3-month duck
― mark s, Wednesday, 17 January 2018 18:13 (six years ago) link
as per the description on wikipedia here: poultry, quails, a duck, a turkey, fish, a mackerel, cheese, pastries, bread rolls, sausages, hams, a pigeon, a sea bream and a pig's trotter (source: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Keukenstuk_(bodeg%C3%B3n)_Rijksmuseum_SK-A-2962.jpeg)
when i said exotic, i thought it was clear i was talking specifically about the aspects of spanish cuisine, not whether duck was native to spain
of course there are ducks everywhere, however duck in spanish cuisine is pretty much nonexistent, especially pigeon, because the latter is seen as the rats of the bird family
i see now the other fella down there is actually a turkey:
The turkey is a large bird in the genus Meleagris, which is native to the Americas.
outside of the context of this painting, i think it would be important to know that duck is a thing in arabic cuisine (i did not know this), due to al andalus, etc., sure
but i think the inclusion of various ingredients popular in "new world" cuisine makes a difference
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastronom%C3%ADa_de_Espa%C3%B1a#Un_%C2%ABNuevo_Mundo%C2%BB_de_ingredientes
A mediados del siglo XVI entró el tomate en tierras españolas procedente de los aztecas (América), siendo Castilla el primer paso de entrada al resto de Europa, debido al monopolio que poseía sobre el transporte de productos provenientes del Nuevo Mundo.14 Aparece en la lista de plantas provenientes del Nuevo Mundo del códice Historia general de las cosas de la Nueva España.15 La primera referencia al cultivo del tomate en España data del año 1777. Se debe al padre Gregorio de los Ríos, quien publica una obra titulada Agricultura de jardines, que trata de la manera que se han de criar, gobernar y conservar las plantas y todas las demás cosas que para esto se requieren, dando a cada una su punto.11 Aparecen igualmente en 1608 documentos, en forma de listas de la compra para el Hospital de la Sangre en Sevilla, que indican la presencia de tomates y pepinos para la elaboración de ensaladas.16 Entre 1645 y 1646 el pintor sevillano Bartolomé Esteban Murillo realiza una obra denominada La cocina de los ángeles, en la que se muestra la preparación de un plato con tomates.Algunos autores fijan un cierto declive en la cocina española a comienzos del siglo XVIII con la subida al trono español de Felipe V,2 debido quizás a un excesivo «afrancesamiento» de los gustos y las formas de cocinar. A pesar de ello existen autores como Francisco Martínez Motiño, que publica a finales del siglo XVIII un libro sobre repostería.17 El gusto por comer queda reflejado en obras literarias de la época, como ciertos pasajes del Don Quijote de la Mancha, La Lozana Andaluza y otros.
sorry, the english version does not have these details
so it mostly says plants and herbs were being used after spain reached the americas, but it references the florentine codex, which also has a chapter dedicated to birds and ducks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florentine_Codex)
it says spanish cuisine was heavily influenced by the florentine codex and with philip v, spain's cuisine became heavily frenchified, which would make sense why pigeon and duck are there, which can be used to make pate
of course there are cultural errors in this painting, but this is probably because it was a poorly commissioned project given to a minor painter, i think this is what complicates things and why there are different theories as to why this was painted and what is being represented here. it looks like a failed attempt at something though
this painting doesn't seem to be too preoccupied with representing reality as it is, hence there are no rotting turkeys, but trying to send a political message, in my opinion, because being frenchified was, like what i quoted said, seen as a decline in spanish culture
― infinity (∞), Wednesday, 17 January 2018 19:20 (six years ago) link
There could be Spanish coins in Holland until Holland became independent, possibly that might be an angle. I don't know whether or how much coinage travelled between countries at that time. Given the pre-eminence of Spain it would make sense for Spanish coinage to be widespread, perhaps.
ya habsburg spain makes sense come to think of itthey wanna put their money on display so they put a bunch of meat
The thing with this whole still-life genre of painting is you're never quite sure if it's meant to be saying all this is vanity, or rather look at all this stuff we've got. The inclusion of the enigmatic chef really threw me for six in this particular case. There's no chef to be found in Josefa de Alaya's painting of the lamb, or in this typical vanitas from the Dutch School:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bb/7b/cc/bb7bcc24ff192d0779606e09d40abd58.jpg
^ This painting perhaps deserves its own poll.
https://media.mutualart.com/Images/2015_10/27/04/040630357/b6ea2fdd-d19b-41af-ad26-aec54c6065ce_570.Jpeg
i think his togs look more spanish than dutch (tho this is not my area of expertise)
It looks like a fairly standard doublet with baggy shirt underneath to me. His facial hair looks out of step with the Spanish fashion but that might just mean he isn't wealthy.
― Never changed username before (cardamon), Thursday, 18 January 2018 00:22 (six years ago) link