the escape room picture is pretty badanti Manning libs signal boosting nazis in order to try and score points has been predictable but nauseating
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 05:53 (six years ago) link
I can't make heads or tails of the JSIV tweet either, folks pretzel themselves when their heroes fuck upthat said I am inclined to believe Kim kelly''s account of the cernovich event thing
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 05:57 (six years ago) link
Instinctively recoiling at whatever describing someone's politics as "modern" might mean.
― louise ck (milo z), Monday, 22 January 2018 06:01 (six years ago) link
“anti Manning libs signal boosting nazis in order to try and score points has been predictable but nauseating”― Simon H., Sunday, January 21, 2018 9:53
Is this is in reference to people who simply drew attention to the fact that she hung out with neo-nazis?
― Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 22 January 2018 07:02 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyF8RHM1OCg
― grim-n-gritty hooty reboot (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 22 January 2018 09:16 (six years ago) link
nope
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 11:31 (six years ago) link
Simon, you need to explain what you mean, because it's nonsense.
― Frederik B, Monday, 22 January 2018 12:41 (six years ago) link
Or I guess the way to say it is 'You deserve to answer that yourself'...
― Frederik B, Monday, 22 January 2018 12:42 (six years ago) link
I'm talking in part about people like the Buzzfeed reporter who wrote about how "nice" they were to Manning, including references to them "not misgendering" her, but then not reporting on the actual content of the speeches, which were breathtakingly transphobic, as you'd imagine (there's footage on Vic Berger's TL but I'm not linking it from work). obviously I'm miffed that she was there at all but if you're using her presence to sanitize their views and/or make them more palatable figures you're doing it wrong.
this was addressed better than I expected it would be on chapo, incidentally
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 13:06 (six years ago) link
yeah if she went there to get "intel" or whatever it was incredibly stupid, plus of COURSE they were nice they love to show hey we're not the bad guys portrayed on TV, it was either incredibly naive or stupid (or both). no matter what she says or does about this from this point out, pictures last forever (and were worth 1000 words at least prior to brexit), that picture is so damning and people aren't going to bother to listen to whatever the explanation ends up being
also like if she's serious about actually *running for office* there's probably like approximately 1 million things she should be doing in term of her campaign than crashing a proud boys party, seems like an indication that this thing is going nowhere
― bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 22 January 2018 15:09 (six years ago) link
like here's the "intel" a bunch of delusion cosplay racist fuckers were having a party
― bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 22 January 2018 15:10 (six years ago) link
yeah it was dumb, no doubt about that
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 15:11 (six years ago) link
also for a podcast that gets described as sophomoric/immature etc (often not without reason) I appreciated Virgil's methodical description of the processes related to the shutdown and Felix's empathetic (but not handwavey) take on the Chelsea Manning thing
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 15:18 (six years ago) link
also like if she's serious about actually *running for office*
what part of "#WEGOTTHIS [ EMOJI ] [ EMOJI ]" gives you the impression she's not serious about running for office?
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Monday, 22 January 2018 15:35 (six years ago) link
hey I'm all for unorthodox campaigning as long as it doesn't involve photo ops with nazis
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 15:37 (six years ago) link
that was a path to victory recently irrc
― President Keyes, Monday, 22 January 2018 15:43 (six years ago) link
iirc
― President Keyes, Monday, 22 January 2018 15:44 (six years ago) link
I guess framed another way, what about her background suggests she should be taken seriously as a candidate for US Senate? She is an ex-soldier with leftist views who leaked documents. Why not just run any random member of DSA for US Senate if that's all it takes?
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Monday, 22 January 2018 15:45 (six years ago) link
what's your benchmark for being taken seriously?
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 16:02 (six years ago) link
she made a difficult (but correct) choice that most of us would not have, and suffered for it for 7 years, which probably gives her a unique perspective and experience when it comes to foreign policy and US power. that's valuable and genuinely novel experience, imo
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 16:05 (six years ago) link
Some kind of demonstrated interest in or aptitude for the political process might be nice. City council, mayor of a small town, state legislature, even political organizing.
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Monday, 22 January 2018 16:17 (six years ago) link
A unique perspective that doesn't stop her from partying with nazis. Fuck that perspective, in all honesty. I see absolutely no value in that.
― Frederik B, Monday, 22 January 2018 16:30 (six years ago) link
That describes everyone who's in there now and everything is terrible. xp
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 16:31 (six years ago) link
well, apart from the president, but that doesn't exactly refute your 'everything is terrible' position
― grim-n-gritty hooty reboot (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 22 January 2018 16:32 (six years ago) link
A person holding a perspective doing a stupid thing is not a refutation of that perspective. If you see no value in it you'll need to work a bit harder at explaining why.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 22 January 2018 16:36 (six years ago) link
You seriously don't see how far-rightism might be related to 'foreign policy and US power'? It's not as if she went with a stupid farming lobby.
― Frederik B, Monday, 22 January 2018 16:39 (six years ago) link
― Simon H., Monday, January 22, 2018 11:31 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
it describes Bernie too!
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Monday, 22 January 2018 16:40 (six years ago) link
maybe it's like Demolition Man, in order to take down a criminal you have to think like one. who better to take down a traitor than another traitor?
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 22 January 2018 16:40 (six years ago) link
and he mostly sucks!
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 16:42 (six years ago) link
xpI think Manning's public profile is big enough that she doesn't nec need to start as small as all that, but the House would make much more sense for a radical than Senate
― rob, Monday, 22 January 2018 16:42 (six years ago) link
You seriously don't see how far-rightism might be related to 'foreign policy and US power'?
Not in 2018 tbh, both US isolationist fascism and European anti-american fascism are dying off, alt right on both continents very much enthusiastic about US power.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 22 January 2018 16:44 (six years ago) link
That is so stupid I literally don't know where to begin
― Frederik B, Monday, 22 January 2018 16:48 (six years ago) link
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 16:42 (nine minutes ago) Permalink
Yes, it's almost as though the very nature of our byzantine political system places limits on what one can accomplish, and experience navigating that system is helpful in getting anything at all done!
― IF (Terrorist) Yes, Explain (man alive), Monday, 22 January 2018 16:53 (six years ago) link
not sure i recognize this. US isolationist fascism seems to be a big part of the US alt-right to me. lots of foreign entanglement skepticism.
― Mordy, Monday, 22 January 2018 17:07 (six years ago) link
In happier news, a new web series has debuted. This one features cameos from Pareene & Will’s cat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTXJeP11efU
― Crazy Display Name Haver (kingfish), Monday, 22 January 2018 17:08 (six years ago) link
I feel like this was a big (opportunistic) motif on the US alt-right just up to the point where they got "their guy" in and now all Trumpian sabre-rattling is enthusiastically approved of
The European far right's move towards a pro-US position also strongly influenced by a love of Trump, the idea of the US as the strongest hope in the culture war against Islam and younger fascists basically getting all their talking points from US sources.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 22 January 2018 17:13 (six years ago) link
sabre-rattling does not necessarily mean support for new conflicts (and sometimes a lot of rattling can indicate a lack of appetite for actual war)
― Mordy, Monday, 22 January 2018 17:24 (six years ago) link
wait why does Bernie mostly suck? and who are we comparing him to in this case?
honest question. you can't just say "This person sucks" with nothing to reference. that would be playground name-calling level intellectual discourse
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 22 January 2018 17:28 (six years ago) link
didn't Democrats just give Trump a huge thumbs up to continue the very torture and human rights abuses inflicted upon Manning? and he voted against that.
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 22 January 2018 17:29 (six years ago) link
maybe they would get more voters if they didn't keep ponying up with Republicans for ever profitable Patriot Act Abuse Theater
― AdamVania (Adam Bruneau), Monday, 22 January 2018 17:33 (six years ago) link
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=115&session=1&vote=00011
I'm just hoping that manning escape rooming with fash means that people will stop retweeting her normie bromides into my TL
― khat person (jim in vancouver), Monday, 22 January 2018 18:11 (six years ago) link
playground name-calling is fun though
tbh I just resent the idea that everyone on the left loves bernie, which is why he gets brought up a lot in kneejerk ways and I tend to respond in kind as I did here. it's cool that there's someone in US government making socialism palatable but he's always been v dodgy on foreign policy (though to his credit he seems to be trying to pivot of late) and too enamored with weak-tea reforms that only seem radical compared to his peers. I will certainly acknowledge that his candidacy has been a stepping stone into left politics for a lot of people which is neat. I have now seen roughly three dozen variants on the "me on bernie around liberals vs me on bernie around comrades" meme and they're all accurate
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 18:19 (six years ago) link
Rectenwald alleged that a May email thread sent to more than 100 NYU staffers included “malicious” statements -- and that NYU didn’t prevent the “nasty screed,” the Post reported. The emails reportedly called him an “Adderall-filled bully” and “right-wing misogynist,” among other things.
Frost responded to Fox News briefly in an email: "lol."
― flopson, Monday, 22 January 2018 20:15 (six years ago) link
ahahahaha
― mag gerwig! (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 22 January 2018 20:18 (six years ago) link
I doubt she bothered with the punctuation
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 20:21 (six years ago) link
here are plenty of good reasons to criticize bernie but if you think he "mostly sucks" because he's not far-left enough it is fair to say you will not ever be even slightly satisfied w/ any development in american politics. this is a perfectly respectable position but i'm not sure how you can square having such high standards w/ support for celebrity stunt campaigns like the one currently being run by chelsea manning, whose collected public statements to date are 50 percent emojis.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 22 January 2018 20:25 (six years ago) link
I'm intrigued by the concept of true outsider candidates with different sorts of experiences and backgrounds from the norm, I would love for her campaign to live up to her heroism but that seems, uh, unlikely at this point. she's fallen short recently but I don't think that's because people like her running is inherently a "celebrity stunt" and tbh the emoji complaint is stupid. (the nazi complaint is fine lol)
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 20:30 (six years ago) link
if I was unduly uncritical of her initial moves chalk it up to earnest admiration I guess
― Simon H., Monday, 22 January 2018 20:34 (six years ago) link
i don't think it's stupid to ask that a candidate for the u.s. senate have more public statements on record than chelsea manning has. yes, she's undoubtedly got a different perspective than any other candidate. we still have no idea what many of her actual political positions are. america doesn't have a great track record w/ the "true outsider candidate" thing. if she started running a real campaign, i might change my mind: as it is, this looks like a stunt.
fwiw i like chelsea, think she acted heroically, and am reluctant to be harsh on someone who went through such a horrific experience. i even find her twitter presence kinda sweet. but this fiasco makes it clear that she wasn't ready for this.
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 22 January 2018 20:44 (six years ago) link