"Yes Darling, But is It Cinema?" A mini-explanation by Gukbe
The first time I did this poll, I started with the idea that it would be based on Academy rules (commercial release in NY or LA for at least a week in the calendar year). The idea was to limit the number of films eligible and level the playing field (if someone saw a film at a festival and nobody else would see it until the next year, it would dilute the vote by spreading it over years, etc). This was obviously unworkable, if only because other countries have different release dates. For instance, Ladybird isn't out in the UK until March. So I relented, and even if it wasn't necessarily fair to a film that it was screened at a festival (You got to go to TIFF? Awesome, but most of us don't), it would be an arbitrary distinction. So, let people vote for what they feel to head off complaints.
So what's the restriction? Most of us can't see Nocturama in the theater, but there it is, streaming on Netflix. The best I could come up with was that as long as it had a public screening in a cinema, it counts. O.J. felt more TV to me, but it was screened. Twin Peaks is somewhat similar, because even though Lynch considers it a movie, and it wasn't really written episodically (the Bang Bang Club epilogues felt like they were added in rather than part of the whole), I watched it week by week and that's a different experience for me. Other arguments are available, including the excellent Nick Pinkerton piece linked in the Detrius thread. But really, the whole thing was screened at MoMa, so how could I not include it without it being arbitrarily taking a side and not wanting to include it in the results?
If you don't think it counts, make an argument and convince people.
And sorry, Morbs, but I can't dwell on the previous year longer than 3 months.
― Gukbe, Saturday, 3 February 2018 16:59 (six years ago) link
I'm still working on 2015.
but there it is, streaming on Netflix
ah so that's who sponsors this poll
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 3 February 2018 17:14 (six years ago) link
the whole thing was screened at MoMa
Was this some cynical cash-in? Who were the suckers who went?
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 February 2018 19:44 (six years ago) link
They hold free screenings of notable films near the end of the year; I think Twin Peaks was part of that series.
― one way street, Saturday, 3 February 2018 19:47 (six years ago) link
fwiw, were we running this back in their respective years I don't think Berlin Alexanderplatz or Fanny and Alexander or Carlos should've been on the poll. They were made for TV, whatever its cinematic qualities (also whether Lynch considers it a film or not is neither here nor there - it lived on a different format, whatever the odd screening at the cinema might otherwise say) xp = cool thanks. Here Berlin Alexanderplatz got a screening or two. I mean that's fine if you wanted to see it that way and its part of a retro, it just lived in a different way.
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 February 2018 19:52 (six years ago) link
I'd rather have a poll anyway - just remarking the result will be odd.
― xyzzzz__, Saturday, 3 February 2018 19:55 (six years ago) link
Well personally I'm gonna be voting for stuff that I didn't get to see in a theatre but watched on MUBI or bluray, so I'm already a sinner in thinking something can live in more than one wayBut even if TP wasn't obviously better film in 2017 than "film in 2017" was, it placing would still be valuable for annoying the type of person that would be annoyed by it
― scrüt (wins), Saturday, 3 February 2018 23:23 (six years ago) link
Well, this has got off to a good start
― i know kore-eda (or something), Sunday, 4 February 2018 00:54 (six years ago) link
I'm only going to vote for stuff I watched on my smartphone this year so my ballot is mostly going to be made up of Luke Cage episodes
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Sunday, 4 February 2018 02:08 (six years ago) link
Berlin Alexanderplatz, Fanny and Alexander & Carlos were all released first in cinemas in the US.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 4 February 2018 02:48 (six years ago) link
At least four critics and two civilian Lynchdorks I know, and about 344 others. Full theater for 3 days.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 4 February 2018 03:03 (six years ago) link
Carlos was also screened here - the shorter theatrical version (F&A has one as well). Counting those would be to their detriment, depends on the edit.
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 4 February 2018 09:48 (six years ago) link
Twin Peaks was shown in cinema first in France.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 4 February 2018 10:29 (six years ago) link
So much hand-wringing over something that takes care of itself. With or without Twin Peaks, it seems fairly obvious to me that Phantom Thread will win. Excepting myself and a couple of other people, there's been universal swoon over it on ILX.
― clemenza, Sunday, 4 February 2018 14:08 (six years ago) link
Rest assured: I'll do what I can to get A Quiet Passion, The Ornithologist, or The Lost City of Z up there.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Sunday, 4 February 2018 14:12 (six years ago) link
Same, plus Personal Shopper and Nocturama
― Tarr Yang Preminger Argento Carpenter (Eric H.), Sunday, 4 February 2018 18:41 (six years ago) link
I can't think of anything better 2017 movies than the 5 just mentioned there.
― calzino, Sunday, 4 February 2018 18:49 (six years ago) link
does L’Économie du couple count as a 2017 movie?
― calzino, Sunday, 4 February 2018 18:55 (six years ago) link
Personal shopper feels like it came out ages ago (I still haven't seen it)
― scrüt (wins), Sunday, 4 February 2018 18:57 (six years ago) link
I thought it was brilliant, and along with Nocturama and A Quiet Passion it will be my top 3.
― calzino, Sunday, 4 February 2018 19:01 (six years ago) link
Of the following films, which are eligible:
Toni Erdmann, Certain Women, Personal shopper, elle, the handmaiden,the love witch, hell or high water
― i know kore-eda (or something), Sunday, 4 February 2018 19:10 (six years ago) link
I think you'll find that at least three of those 'placed' last year, but hey everything's eligible
so i encourage votes for any and all Welles films
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 4 February 2018 19:20 (six years ago) link
Last year's results, fwiw ...
Toni Erdmann 475 18Manchester By The Sea 379 15American Honey 300 10Moonlight 297 11Things to Come 271 10Paterson 247 11Cameraperson 244 9Embrace of the Serpent 239 10Certain Women 223 8Elle 216 9O.J.: Made in America 209 6Silence 206 9Love & Friendship 186 9The Handmaiden 185 8Cemetery of Splendour 178 5The Witch 168 8Arabian Nights 165 5I Am Not Your Negro 163 7Green Room 160 8Hell or High Water 143 8The Assassin 143 5The Neon Demon 141 7I, Daniel Blake 137 6Son of Saul 129 5Hail, Casear! 118 5Victoria 115 6A Bigger Splash 114 4Mountains May Depart 112 4The Other Side 111 4The Measure of a Man 108 4Hunt for the Wilderpeople 92 6Weiner Dog 91 4Everybody Wants Some!! 85 5Little Men 85 5Childhood of a Leader 83 3Knight of Cups 83 4Fire At Sea 82 4No Home Movie 82 4Sunset Song 82 3The Death of Louis XIV 81 3Loving 77 420th Century Women 76 5Arrival 73 5Sieranevada 72 2The Fits 71 4Jackie 70 4High Rise 69 3The Lobster 68 4Sing Street 66 3Anomalisa 65 3Maggie's Plan 65 3Indignation 63 3Tower 63 3Pearl Button 62 2Rams 57 4De Palma 56 2The Love Witch 56 2Zootopia 56 3Our Little Sister 50 3The Club 47 3Eisenstein in Guanajuato 46 2Aferim 45 2La La Land 42 2Train to Busan 41 2A Quiet Passion 40 1Being 17 40 1Visit or Memories and Confessions 40 1Weiner 39 2Chevalier 38 2The Woman Who Left 38 2Deapool 37 2Under the Shadow 37 2When Marnie Was There 37 2White Girl 36 1Tale of Tales 35 3Dirty Grandpa 33 1Julieta 33 2Mustang 33 2The Nice Guys 33 1The Red Turtle 33 2Remainder 32 2My Golden Days 31 3Happy Hour 30 1Kubo and the Two Strings 30 1Nocturnal Animals 30 2Standing Tall 30 1Hypernormalisation 29 2Right Now, Wrong THen 29 2The Illinois Parables 29 2Captain America: Civil War 28 1Cosmos 28 1Scarred Hearts 28 1Keanu 26 2Nothing Left Unsaid 26 1The Greasy Strangler 26 1The Wialing 26 1Evolution 25 2Ixcanul 25 1Kate Plays Christine 25 2Men and Chicken 25 2Popstar: Never Stop Never Stopping 25 2Supersonic 25 1Swiss Army Man 25 1Couple in a Hole 24 2In the Last Days of the city 24 1Lemonade 24 1Mapplethorpe: Look at Pictures 24 1Queen of Katwe 24 2Triple 9 24 1Into the Inferno 23 1Mimosas 23 1The Edge of Seventeen 23 1The Invitation 23 1A Lullaby to the Sorrowful Mystery 22 1Aaaaaaah! 22 1Author: THe JT LeRoy Story 22 1Christine 22 1Florence Foster Jenkins 22 1Passengers 22 1The Treasure 22 1Dog Eat Dog 21 1Kaili Blues 21 1The Son of Joseph 21 1Tickled 21 1Your Name 21 4Histoire(s) Du cinema 20 1The Ornithologist 20 1Girls Lost 19 1The Hateful Eight 19 1Don't Think Twice 18 1Neruda 18 1Not Film 18 110 Cloverfield Lane 17 2Aquarius 17 1Creepy 17 1Eat That Question: Frank Zappa... 17 1King Jack 17 1Nocturama 17 1Serena 17 1A Town Called Panic: Back in School 16 1El Sur 16 1I Am Not A Serial Killer 16 1Louder than Bombs 16 1The Jungle Book 16 1Doctor Strange 15 1Don't Blink 15 1In the Shadow of Women 15 1Captain Fantastic 14 1Harmonium 14 1Le Fils de Joseph 14 1My Friend from the Park 14 1Neon Bull 14 2Other People 14 1February 13 1Star Trek Beyond 13 1Sully 13 1Janis: Little Girl Blue 12 1Sweet Bean 12 1Hacksaw Ridge 11 1Halfway 11 1Microbe and Gasoline 11 1The Happiest Day in the Life of Olli Maki 11 1The Sundial Carved with a Thousand... 11 1Uncle Kent 2 11 1American Pastoral 10 1JLG/JLG 10 1The United States of Love 10 1Godless 9 1King Lear 9 1Sweaty Betty 9 1Cafe Society 8 1One Sings, the Other Doesn't 8 1The Untamed 8 1In the Realm of the Sense 7 1Papusza 7 1The Last Family 7 1
― Tarr Yang Preminger Argento Carpenter (Eric H.), Sunday, 4 February 2018 19:37 (six years ago) link
I see The Death of Louis XIV got some votes last year.
This year too
― scrüt (wins), Sunday, 4 February 2018 19:42 (six years ago) link
Yeah thanks I knew I'd voted for some of those last year but they definitely didn't get a British release til this year
― i know kore-eda (or something), Sunday, 4 February 2018 20:01 (six years ago) link
Perhaps we should make something that placed in the previous year ineligible for the following. I dunno seems unfair on some but I don't wanna vote toni erdmann film of the year 2 years running eg (tbh I might have it at 2 or 3 this time around but still)
― i know kore-eda (or something), Sunday, 4 February 2018 20:04 (six years ago) link
Has anything got votes 3 years running yet?
― scrüt (wins), Sunday, 4 February 2018 20:08 (six years ago) link
Perhaps we should make something that placed in the previous year ineligible for the following.
I strongly disagree w/ this. I purposely didn't vote for Toni Erdmann last year because I knew I would want to to vote for it in this year's poll, 2017 being the year it got a cinema release in Britain and the year that I first saw it.
― Agharta Christie (Ward Fowler), Sunday, 4 February 2018 20:46 (six years ago) link
I also didn't get to see Scorsese's Silence until the very beginning of 2017, but I didn't include any of the staggered release movies that I also loved in early 2017 (Julieta, Toni Erdmann, Elle). I guess I go by Oscar qualifications, cf. Personal Shopper, which came out in the USA in March 2017 and didn't qualify for the Oscars despite opening in many other countries in 2016. And yeah honestly I feel like putting Twin Peaks in is fishy, as much as Lynch says it's one long movie it's not, it wasn't made for the cinema, it was made for television. I still put it on my ballot because this is a message board poll and I loved Twin Peaks and ultimately idgaf but it's definitely not the same as Fanny and Alexander, which had a 3 hour theatrical cut released to theaters in America before anyone had access to the TV version. anyway
― flappy bird, Sunday, 4 February 2018 21:43 (six years ago) link
― Agharta Christie (Ward Fowler), Sunday, 4 February 2018 20:46 (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag
I'm cool with that but it means I'm going to vote for a few films I voted for last year
― i know kore-eda (or something), Sunday, 4 February 2018 21:59 (six years ago) link
Toni Erdmann WON last year? i am getting better at forgetting the results of these polls almost instantly.
these slo-mo releases are a good argument for delaying such decisions til July.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 5 February 2018 01:33 (six years ago) link
sonotgonnahappen.jpg
― Alba, Monday, 5 February 2018 07:36 (six years ago) link
Poll sent!
― Agharta Christie (Ward Fowler), Monday, 5 February 2018 12:27 (six years ago) link
Ballot sent!
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 5 February 2018 21:09 (six years ago) link
You guys are voting so early! Have you seen everything? There’s still time to watch some good stuff by female directors:
My Happy FamilyOn Body and SoulBy the Time It Gets DarkBerlin Syndrome
― Cherish, Friday, 9 February 2018 00:43 (six years ago) link
I have a ballot ready to go, but I'm holding off sending it until March 1st or so.
― WilliamC, Friday, 9 February 2018 03:14 (six years ago) link
I can't see The Florida Project until February 20, so I have to wait until then at least.
But, seriously, those four I listed are very good. I don't want to be the only one who votes for them!
― Cherish, Sunday, 11 February 2018 19:59 (six years ago) link
I def wanted to see On Body and Soul when MUBI was showing it but I didn't get round to it. Missed By the Time It Gets Dark in its one week run. Sadly there is only so much time.
I put The Nothing Factory in my ballot.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/jan/28/the-nothing-factory-review-unconventional-workplace-drama
This was like a summation of a lots and lots of political cinema of many colours, and its very knowing on how boring as well as exciting a lot of it was.
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 February 2018 20:14 (six years ago) link
You guys are voting so early!
I always think of this as a poll of the films I saw in 2017, so in theory could have submitted my vote on Jan 1st. There's always next year's poll!
I avoided this because the Glasgow Film Theatre booklet compared it to Gomes' The Arabian Nights, which I largely disliked, but based on your description I regret that now.
― Agharta Christie (Ward Fowler), Sunday, 11 February 2018 20:25 (six years ago) link
Its miles better than The Arabian Nights, whose 1st part I caught and also despised (oh they are both Portuguese and left-wing! So bloody lazy).
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 February 2018 20:34 (six years ago) link
It's very much in the same tradition as Arabian Nights, a tradition that goes from Antonio Reis and gives so many Portuguese films such an ethnographic dimension. There's a bunch of Portuguese documentaries a lot like it, and you see aspects of it in Pedro Costa and Joao Pedro Rodrigues as well, just to name two other major Portuguese filmmakers.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 11 February 2018 21:04 (six years ago) link
Pedro Costa has a completely different rhtyhm and his films are the result of a specific project and even a politics (there is much empathy for the poor and it delves into Portuguese history and colonial history but its also very resigned about it all as well).
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 11 February 2018 21:09 (six years ago) link
no Ward, no. eg, Phantom Thread is not a 2018 film, not no way, not nohow.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 11 February 2018 21:12 (six years ago) link
UK Release Date: Friday 2 February 2018
― Agharta Christie (Ward Fowler), Sunday, 11 February 2018 21:37 (six years ago) link
pish tosh
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 11 February 2018 21:52 (six years ago) link
Just looked through the list from last year. I'm voting for at least four that got votes last year.
Also noticed that one of them, Eugene Green's The Son of Joseph, got one vote in English and one in French! Let's consolidate our votes this year, Green fans. Pick a language!
― Cherish, Sunday, 11 February 2018 22:41 (six years ago) link
Tomorrow is the two-year anniversary of the premiere of The Son of Joseph. Great film.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 11 February 2018 22:55 (six years ago) link
It is great, and the most openly comic film of his I've seen. Of course there's comedy in all his films, and obviously Le monde vivant was pretty silly, but this one is classic farce.
"How do you feel about hipsters?"
"I hate them."
"Me, too!"
― Cherish, Monday, 12 February 2018 00:20 (six years ago) link
The Nothing Factory was some hot, flaming bullshit, and this is from someone who thinks Arabian Nights is one of the best films ever. To compare them is criminal. If you want to watch a film that will clumsily attack you for daring to watch it, for three fucking hours, be my guest. Dismal
― imago, Tuesday, 13 February 2018 22:01 (six years ago) link
oh, I have his new one
― kelp, clam and carrion (sic), Sunday, 22 July 2018 06:44 (five years ago) link
It's Dunkirk/Bear, actually.
And I only changed one vote so the old one should be recognizable. It had 'Your Name' at 25.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 22 July 2018 07:04 (five years ago) link
shit i should've put that on my ballot
― flappy bird, Sunday, 22 July 2018 07:11 (five years ago) link
wtf is Bear film
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 22 July 2018 09:00 (five years ago) link
The Revenant. Hey, it premiered in 2017 in Denmark. Actually the topselling film of the year.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 22 July 2018 09:04 (five years ago) link
jesus, DiCaprio w/ Marty is bad enough
― the ignatius rock of ignorance (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 22 July 2018 09:05 (five years ago) link
Lol, that was way off, Revenant is of course oscar bait 2016 and thr equivalent this year was La La Land. The best selling film of 2017 was of course the wookie film.
― Frederik B, Sunday, 22 July 2018 09:26 (five years ago) link
what's up, 3am crew. 614 valid votes cast, looking like it'll be a top 52 because of ties.
― kelp, clam and carrion (sic), Sunday, 22 July 2018 09:43 (five years ago) link
just got around to watching Ex Libris: The New York Public Library the night before last. didn't watch it in time for the vote, but hope to see it in the rollout
― Dan S, Tuesday, 24 July 2018 00:30 (five years ago) link
lol at Soto's revised ballot being exactly the same as his OG except with a different #24
― kelp, clam and carrion (sic),
Travel, etc.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 24 July 2018 01:17 (five years ago) link
If everyone's ready to move into the auditorium and take their seats, the results thread is about to begin.
― kelp, clam and carrion (sic), Tuesday, 24 July 2018 18:22 (five years ago) link
Straw poll: who's for voting 2018 in February again, and who's for waiting until, say, June?
― sans lep (sic), Monday, 31 December 2018 21:52 (five years ago) link
in on the first, happy to see it whenever it's donePADDINGTON 2 y'all
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:20 (five years ago) link
would march be a nice compromise
― imago, Monday, 31 December 2018 22:24 (five years ago) link
February. I realize there's this compulsion for some to see everything before drawing up a list, but it's just a poll. If you miss something this year, you catch it next year. In general, I hate the modern tendency to rush everything--record and film reviews now, opinions now, year-end lists in early December--but February is perfectly reasonable. A year-end poll in June seems silly to me.
― clemenza, Monday, 31 December 2018 22:29 (five years ago) link
June was a proposed compromise against the much-loved July poll of this year
― sans lep (sic), Monday, 31 December 2018 22:47 (five years ago) link
I thought June was fine esp as a counterbalance to October year end polls
― Your dad's Carlos Boozer and you keep him alive (fionnland), Monday, 31 December 2018 23:04 (five years ago) link
Do it in Feb w/ the Oscars
― ebro the letter (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 31 December 2018 23:06 (five years ago) link
i guess we won't know who made the real five-baggers unless oscar tells us
― imago, Monday, 31 December 2018 23:08 (five years ago) link
June
― Juul Haalmeyer Dancers washout (WmC), Monday, 31 December 2018 23:09 (five years ago) link
yeah June, fionnland has a good point about it breaking up the glut of lists/polls this time of year. and those movies that don't make it out of new york or la by march 2019 might be someone's favorite, it's happened to me. but oddly this is the first year ever where I've seen everything of note (except Cold War). somehow everything made it here by the end of the year. but this is the first time this has happened to me 15+ years after leaving new york.
― flappy bird, Monday, 31 December 2018 23:18 (five years ago) link
February is perfect for me, personally. It gives me time to go to Gothenburg and catch up in January, and it means I get the list-making over with as the new festival year begins in Berlin. But ok, if the rest of you want to wait until June, I guess that's what we'll do.
― Frederik B, Monday, 31 December 2018 23:30 (five years ago) link
ftr
Really, the solution is to always do the poll in late July so nearly everything that opens on one continent the previous year will have had 7 months to spread, like a social disease.― Dr Morbius
― Dr Morbius
Actually rather agree with the late July idea― imago
― imago
Yeah I was gonna say we should do this in the middle of the year every year to avoid these double placements. I live in a mid-sized city in the USA and often get less than half of the prestige/quality art house films until early the next year, often going all the way into March.[...]Certain Women came out in Europe in March 2017, and was released on home video in June. this could've been avoided & could be in the future by delaying the poll til mid-summer― flappy bird
[...]
Certain Women came out in Europe in March 2017, and was released on home video in June. this could've been avoided & could be in the future by delaying the poll til mid-summer
― flappy bird
Agreed that we should put off voting until at least July for the previous year.― WilliamC
― WilliamC
counterpoint:
thought about watching Coco before voting; too busy watching Twin Peaks― Dr Morbius, July 2017
― Dr Morbius, July 2017
Morbs hasn't finished watching Twin Peaks yet, so if we hurry we can counteract any objections bcz he's obv still too busy to have watched any 2018 releases
― sans lep (sic), Monday, 31 December 2018 23:31 (five years ago) link
I'm making a vaguely concerted effort to catch up w/ some now-on-streamings at the moment (Madeline² last night), and Shoplifters is coming to a tiny indie in late January, so I'm expecting to be happy both to vote and to run the poll in February (cutting off votes before the Oscars, rolling out a week or so after). But nobody in the delayed results thread this year argued against the expanded catch-up time!
― sans lep (sic), Monday, 31 December 2018 23:40 (five years ago) link
April maybe?
― flappy bird, Monday, 31 December 2018 23:51 (five years ago) link
as a compromise
Feb please. June was a one-off.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 1 January 2019 18:43 (five years ago) link
et tu Whiney
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 1 January 2019 21:16 (five years ago) link
There was a thread recently where there was some debate over when the year-end film poll should be. I thought it would have been here, but I guess not.
Anyway, I wanted to run a political-film poll this summer. Is is possible for the year-end to be over and done with before then?
ayo clemenza
maybe not over and done before the summer, given the fairly whelming opinion to wait ages, but before July?
clicks "submit post," leaves flat to go and see a movie postulating that evil monsters could take over American politics and society by infiltrating the media
― steven, soda jerk (sic), Thursday, 14 March 2019 03:04 (five years ago) link
I think we should start April 1
― flappy bird, Thursday, 14 March 2019 03:17 (five years ago) link
That'd be fine, thanks. I'll be retired by then anyway, so really, it doesn't matter.
― clemenza, Thursday, 14 March 2019 03:41 (five years ago) link