xpwhat if i don’t like reputation because i find jack antonoff’s production work claustrophobia inducing and find taylor’s vocal shortcomings way too prominent and think the mba lyrics of “endgame” are depressing? the last track is nice though. also isn’t part of the problem here the way The Discourse coalesces/is forced to coalesce around single albums because of the general narrowing of all cultural talking points (thanks trump, thanks google and facebook)? and so bad reviews are in a way pushback against that
― maura, Monday, 5 February 2018 17:45 (six years ago) link
the difference there is that the Taylor Swift single is not terrible, and the Justin Timberlake record is; if anyone but Justin Timberlake released "Man of the Woods" (I don't know who the most likely candidate would be -- Shawn Mendes or Charlie Puth?) people would probably still find it bad.
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:45 (six years ago) link
i think it’s pretty terrible! i heard it in a cab after reputation had faded from my memory and i was pretty appalled
― maura, Monday, 5 February 2018 17:46 (six years ago) link
My senior production students seem to love Jack Antonoff, ugh.
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:47 (six years ago) link
i wonder if it’s generational
― maura, Monday, 5 February 2018 17:48 (six years ago) link
I think it’s bad but not substantially worse than 20/20 exp which again ....
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:48 (six years ago) link
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, February 5, 2018 12:47 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― maura, Monday, February 5, 2018
Draaaaakke
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:48 (six years ago) link
my 17 yr old daughter loves antonoff's stuff, fun, bleachers, the Lorde album, etc
― droit au butt (Euler), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:49 (six years ago) link
I’m not mad consensus swung one way or another I’m mad at how few people I believe, and how opportunistic the perspectives feel, how non-genuine. Saying that I’m wrong or presumptuous to find them not genuine ... feels like beside the point if I’m saying they’re doing a bad job convincing me
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:50 (six years ago) link
totally fair to dislike Reputation or Jack Antonoff! a lot of people do. but I regret to inform you that according to today's discourse this means you are not a music fan, just a reed blowing in the wind and accumulating emoji handclaps
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:51 (six years ago) link
i guess discourse is where you find it.
― maura, Monday, 5 February 2018 17:53 (six years ago) link
(that was not an opinion I share, in case it wasn't clear)
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:55 (six years ago) link
Actually, I find Man in the Woods better than 20/20 Experience because two songs ("Breeze Off the Lake" and "Montana"), maybe a couple others, are enjoyable pieces of music that will sound good on the radio if the album cycle makes it that far. He's never made a front-to-back banger, although it's not like I expect him to.
To me The Justin Experience since 2003 has required us in a fractured pop culture era to accept his indomitability across all media; you have to believe by studying his self-promotion that JT can make good music. Except for his okay debut he's made attenuated shitty albums. In this new cultural moment suddenly the internet acts as if it wasn't aware of his weaknesses.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:58 (six years ago) link
how can you like "out of the woods" but hate "man of the woods" think abt it
― vicious almond beliefs (crüt), Monday, 5 February 2018 17:59 (six years ago) link
makes sense if you don't enjoy being of the woods imo
― sleepingbag, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:01 (six years ago) link
can we just go back to liking cool alternative guitar rock
― j., Monday, 5 February 2018 18:07 (six years ago) link
I was really trying not to say "I only like Taylor Swift when she still played guitar".
― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Monday, 5 February 2018 18:09 (six years ago) link
*liked
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, February 5, 2018 11:51 AM (eighteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
This is literally not what I’m saying but since you’ve decided I’m a Gamergater what I’m saying no longer actually matters
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 18:12 (six years ago) link
― j., Monday, February 5, 2018 6:07 PM (five minutes ago)
we've come full circle!
― Well bissogled trotters (Michael B), Monday, 5 February 2018 18:13 (six years ago) link
enjoying Timberlake during the actual period when he actually irritated Prince only turn on Timberlake during a random Super Bowl years later is classic Twitter incoherence, god save the haters— 🌺JUSTIN CHARITY (@justincharity) February 5, 2018
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 18:18 (six years ago) link
If JT had done a Grant Hart tribute instead he could have solved this mess
― President Keyes, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:20 (six years ago) link
yeah and come out fucking loaded like bob stinson
― flappy bird, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:26 (six years ago) link
The status quo, with any pop artist, is for a critic (the word used generally)'s opinions to align perfectly with an artist's commercial success and/or PR campaign. So with Justin Timberlake, the status quo opinion would be to maintain that Justin was innately incredibly talented and destined to succeed, because he succeeded -- unlike, say, JC, who was destined to flop, because he flopped. The status quo on Justin Timberlake around The 20/20 Experience was that he was an auteur making high art; the status quo is currently that he's an icon, as American as the Super Bowl and the frontier. With Taylor Swift, the status quo would be to maintain that she is the most famous person in the music industry and thus the best. Et cetera.
This is not how "status quo" is used here. How it seems to be used here, and in all of the last 100 times this has played out, is "talking about social justice," a stance that happens to align nicely with the tide of reactionary backlash the world's seen in the past couple years. (The reason I brought up /pol/ is because an incredibly common accusation from that camp is that people are just "virtue signaling.") There are also undertones of "being a person of color with an opinion" -- I don't think it's a coincidence that this argument comes out in its fullest force whenever the criticisms have to do with race, and that the greatest outrage is reserved for people using handclap emojis (a Black Twitter thing) or using the phrase "white mediocrity."
(Also, it's possible to have a genuine opinion about an album that happens to align with the most popular opinion. Always going against received opinion every single time without fail isn't authenticity, it's deliberate contrarianism, which is just as fake as the "status quo"-ing people decry.)
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 5 February 2018 18:29 (six years ago) link
if you agree with *most* but not *every* "social justice" thing people on Twitter say, you are basically 4chan, which is why I'm taking a stand against the nigel the pedo seabird
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:40 (six years ago) link
Like, I think everyone except like four people on ILX are down with the basic tenets of social justice and representation and equal rights and making all the proper adjustments after years of white cis male dominated critical discourse and a white cis male dominated industry. It's sucked for a long time and there are great strides being made every day.
But that doesn't make it not corny when sites do a total 180 on pretty innocuous music by Justin Timberlake
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:45 (six years ago) link
Especially when the ca. 2012-2013 indie rock writers gushing over giant pop albums scanned as try-hard in the first place
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:47 (six years ago) link
with major websites in particular, oart of it is that, now that these major pop stars have basically shut down access to everyone but the New York Times once every few years -- the only interview with Timberlake himself, as opposed to Justin Timberlake Has a Cold-ing, that I've found this album cycle was iHeartMedia -- people can criticize them because they're not going to get the Justin Timberlake interview anyway. but again, that has nothing to do with people on Twitter
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 5 February 2018 18:53 (six years ago) link
*whispers* butwhatifyouwereneveraJTfananyway
― Ned Raggett, Monday, 5 February 2018 18:54 (six years ago) link
#ifitaintwokedontfixit
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 5 February 2018 19:07 (six years ago) link
The most high profile examples of what I’m talking about are by white male critics at major newspapers. I understand that there are legitimate and authentically felt reasons for disliking Justin Timberlake (as I’ve mentioned repeatedly throughout this thread). It’s not any one position that makes me roll my eyes, it’s the disingenuous opportunism of people in our field
And fwiw the way I used handclap emoji in that instance was *applause* sense that is pretty universal not *emphasis on every word* sense which I generally see credited to black women
But moreover I think you’re looking at this conversation through tunnel vision if you think cynicism about the conversation is purely a white reactionary thing. This has not been my experience, and it feels like you’re universalizing your own
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 19:19 (six years ago) link
I guess if it helps us reach some consensus it does feel sometimes like Whiney leans a little heavy on clowning tropes of social justice than I’d be comfortable with
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 19:25 (six years ago) link
RIP real name shit got heated thread
― imago, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:27 (six years ago) link
Oops thnx for the fix
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 19:33 (six years ago) link
I mean, when I think of popular people on Twitter, I don't think of legacy newspaper critics
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 5 February 2018 19:34 (six years ago) link
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, February 5, 2018 2:25 PM (seventeen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
to be perfectly clear, social justice is necessary, but tropes can be funny, ymmv
― Whiney G. Weingarten, Monday, 5 February 2018 19:43 (six years ago) link
like this was published at least by the 4th quarter last night, you can't tell me he didn't know what he was gonna write then just fill in the details of songs, etc
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/04/arts/music/justin-timberlake-super-bowl-halftime-review.html
― bhad and bhabie (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 5 February 2018 19:56 (six years ago) link
professional
― j., Monday, 5 February 2018 20:00 (six years ago) link
“popular on twitter” often means “followed by the same self reinforcing group of 800-900 people” though. who on twitter who thinks about music is actually popular aside from musicians?
― maura, Monday, 5 February 2018 20:11 (six years ago) link
that bald MRA dude
― j., Monday, 5 February 2018 20:13 (six years ago) link
Fwiw I am glad there’s been a correction to some extent, Timberlake was getting mega overvalued by 20/20. But it’s like the Eminem thing too, there’s ppl talking about the glowing praise at the time that made him the new Elvis, but then there’s like ppl deciding he was never good ??
I think it was Vince Staples who said if Eminem was black he’d be redman. The wild vascillations are like 🙄
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 20:20 (six years ago) link
Lmao Lefsetz being republished in DJ booth is *chef kissing fingers motion*
http://djbooth.net/mobile/feature/2018-02-05-justin-timberlake-super-bowl-performance
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 20:46 (six years ago) link
Like Katherine, look at who is lining up to parrot this new consensus. How can you not feel some skepticism?
― Listen to my homeboy Fantano (D-40), Monday, 5 February 2018 20:47 (six years ago) link
fuckin lefsetz whyyy
― maura, Monday, 5 February 2018 21:03 (six years ago) link
tweeted about it and got this smarmy reverse ageist response lol
Ha. We often repost Bob's newsletter on DJBooth (with his permission). If you aren't familiar with Bob's work (he has been a music critic for longer than you've been alive), you should subscribe to his newsletter.— DJBooth (@DJBooth) February 5, 2018
― austinb, Monday, 5 February 2018 21:10 (six years ago) link
something tells me lefsetz is not taking his cues from twitter
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 5 February 2018 21:10 (six years ago) link
amazing
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 5 February 2018 21:10 (six years ago) link
bob lefsetz, noted twitter personality and social justice warrior
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 5 February 2018 21:11 (six years ago) link
also a "music critic" apparently
― austinb, Monday, 5 February 2018 21:12 (six years ago) link
basically at this point I assume lefsetz comes to his musical opinions by tarot card drawing or random number generator
― algorithm is a dancer (katherine), Monday, 5 February 2018 21:15 (six years ago) link