“what about the men” is maybe the 35073rd question anyone should ask, and yet because it’s provocative in that holding up the status quo while being a dick about it way (and also because of who’s still running the show in media) it’s right up top. amazing how hegemony asserts itself
― maura, Monday, 12 February 2018 13:35 (six years ago) link
maura otm; I'm sure he thinks he's being daring, and bravely speaking out, but the attitude is one that's ruled the world for centuries.
― I'm walking on Sondheim (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 12 February 2018 13:51 (six years ago) link
hot takes from white men
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 12 February 2018 14:28 (six years ago) link
white men takes back
― President Keyes, Monday, 12 February 2018 14:29 (six years ago) link
yes, septuagenarian white men sure do spend a lot of their scarce time left reminding the rest of us to put them on mute
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 February 2018 14:31 (six years ago) link
when women speak out about being abused by powerful men it's like a "witch hunt" - those times when powerful men rounded up women whose behaviour they disapproved of and ritually killed them. it's just like that! same thing, basically!
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 12 February 2018 14:38 (six years ago) link
Any pushback feels like oppression to the oppressor.
― Nonsense Ape Debones His Foot (Old Lunch), Monday, 12 February 2018 14:39 (six years ago) link
I mean “outspoken white guy” + “over 69” = guess what, more of them are Hanekes and Trumps than Bernies or Bidensas in most of this entire saga you can usually tell the retrograde silverback wannabes by the fact that they are talking
― El Tomboto, Monday, 12 February 2018 14:39 (six years ago) link
open question to thread: what pop websites online are good for news with female perspective? thinking about jezebel, bust, mary sue variety; curious to see what other media is out there.
― Chocolate-covered gummy bears? Not ruling those lil' guys out. (ulysses), Monday, 12 February 2018 17:07 (six years ago) link
My first thought: who the hell is Michael Haneke?My second thought: that question's not worth answering.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:08 (six years ago) link
the 45th greatest director of all time
― omar little, Monday, 12 February 2018 19:11 (six years ago) link
45th, eh. so, where did Woody Allen place?
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:17 (six years ago) link
97th
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 12 February 2018 19:19 (six years ago) link
then he and woody belong to a highly distinguished group, no doubt.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:21 (six years ago) link
Well, Hitchcock won, so...
― Le Bateau Ivre, Monday, 12 February 2018 19:22 (six years ago) link
I would love to hear Hitchcock's views on the respect that should be accorded to actresses, too. We could poll his, Woody's and Mr. Haneke's views on the subject.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:28 (six years ago) link
Don't leave out Von Trier, I hear he has some ideas too.
― nickn, Monday, 12 February 2018 19:29 (six years ago) link
Bresson too
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 February 2018 19:35 (six years ago) link
korean director kim ki-duk's turn
Famed SKorean director #KimKiDuk was convicted of physically abusing an actress. Yet he has been invited to @berlinale film fest that publicly supported #MeToo campaign against abuse of women. I asked Kim's victim how she feels about it @AFP https://t.co/NaWp8dtYga #berlinale2018— Hawon Jung (@allyjung) February 11, 2018
seems like korea has the most support for having an open conversation on men's sexual misconduct and women's rights issues, while in japan and china it's basically non-existent
― papa poutine (∞), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:40 (six years ago) link
cluck-clucking over every male filmmaker in history, goddamn i love atheist moral scolds
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:45 (six years ago) link
are you really saying every male filmmaker in history abuses or disrespects actresses?
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:48 (six years ago) link
no, you checklisters are coming close enough
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:50 (six years ago) link
so, it's only the great preponderance of them?
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:51 (six years ago) link
or maybe you'd agree that male filmmakers differ in this regard and by examining their words and actions those differences become apparent so that their views on the matter are open to judgment, including negative judgment?
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:54 (six years ago) link
strange, some posts on this board read as total gibberish to me. must be my eyes.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:54 (six years ago) link
what exactly was bresson accused of?
― (The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:55 (six years ago) link
I think reading has more to do with brains than eyes, tbh.
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 12 February 2018 19:56 (six years ago) link
filmmakers have historically been mostly men. it's a job the combines artistic privilege with an even more massive power imbalance and (often) a whole lot of people beneath you. the fact that this combination has so often resulted in abuses is not surprising.
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 19:58 (six years ago) link
teasing out individual dead abusers and dragging them for their crimes is not that interesting to me unless there are living victims there to benefit from it. it's a systemic issue.
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 19:59 (six years ago) link
won't someone PLEASE think of the male filmmakers?
― I'm walking on Sondheim (Ye Mad Puffin), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:00 (six years ago) link
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, February 12, 2018 1:54 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Nah, think it's just your keyboard.
― You dishonor your ancestors with your emoji abstention (Old Lunch), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:01 (six years ago) link
http://blog.edtechie.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/kingofcomedy.jpg
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:03 (six years ago) link
anyhoo Simon otm
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:04 (six years ago) link
It's historically important because it highlights how omnipresent that shit has always been (and especially necessary in cinema because there's a whole mystique around directors having to be tyrants/assholes/abusers in the name of their art, which I don't think applies as much to other arts).
I'm fine with accepting Hitch was both one of the greatest directors of all time and an abuser, don't really think pointing the latter out is in and of itself denying the former.
xposts
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:04 (six years ago) link
a whole mystique around directors having to be tyrants/assholes/abusers in the name of their art, which I don't think applies as much to other arts
hmmm, some off-Broadway play about Diaghilev and Nijinsky just opened. And y'know, The Red Shoes and its real-life analogues?
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:07 (six years ago) link
teasing out individual dead abusers
Dead in the way that michael haneke, lars von trier, woody allen and kim ki duk are dead?
it's a systemic issue.
and yet somehow it is personal, too
― A is for (Aimless), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:07 (six years ago) link
This is correct, I think this applies to the director role in both theatre and cinema.
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:11 (six years ago) link
yes.I was referring to Bresson and hitch fwiw xp
― Simon H., Monday, 12 February 2018 20:12 (six years ago) link
I think given the significant mental health issues D’arcy has been dealing with for nearly two decades, it would be more gross
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:19 (six years ago) link
Entitled, abusive behavior clearly extends beyond stage/screen directors. TV moguls (Ailes etc), political candidates, novelists back when they could become stars, academics, CEOs, everyday workplace supervisors, ad nauseum.
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:21 (six years ago) link
Yeah we know
― flappy bird, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:21 (six years ago) link
seems like a question for another thread really but it struck me as not impossible that the element of directing theatre and film that involves psychological mindfuck, to produce "authentic" performance of extreme states of mind, is an offshoot of the arrival of method acting? (not that bullying didn't exist before,obviously, but that a particular kind of psychological manipulation was greatly enabled, and somewhat encouraged, by the values that method acting most prized)
ballet i think is slightly different (tho i suppose the techniques may be similar) bcz it's pushing people to physical rather than psychogical limits -- tho actually you could sorta-kinda make a not-enitely trollish case for nijinsky being a pioneer of "method ballet"
(it happens in music also: miles, james brown, beefheart, mark e. smith)
― mark s, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:23 (six years ago) link
It's been occurring to me as these stories continue to pop up that the key to that kind of provocation in the arts is the presence of a 'safe word' of sorts, a way for a performer to clearly indicate that they're uncomfortable and a sign for a director to back off before they cross a line. Those kinds of interactions can be valuable and reap rewards but boundaries need to be erected and respected or it just crosses the line into exploitation or worse.
― You dishonor your ancestors with your emoji abstention (Old Lunch), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:27 (six years ago) link
I'm not suggesting shitty behaviour is limited to ppl in cinema (obv), I'm saying the popular perception of what a Great Director is like is more explicitly enabling of abuses of power than it is for, say, writers or musicians. This does not prevent writers and musicians from abusing their power!
― Daniel_Rf, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:28 (six years ago) link
ballet i think is slightly different
― mark s, Monday, February 12, 2018 12:23 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
from what a couple dancer exes have told me, it depends on what type of dance, but there is definitely a give it your all, pushing your limits psychologically, especially if the dancer relates to the story and it's a classical one of sorts (like ballet), if there is even a story. this is for another thread, though. i don't want to digress too much but my beef is with contemporary/jazz dance where everything is so abstract and the focus is on body movement/technique (kind of like the nederlands dans theater), plus like a lot of female dancers seem to want to meet their dancer soulmate when it comes to performing a piece, and doing a love duet, which just boggles my mind
― papa poutine (∞), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:35 (six years ago) link
(yes, i shd have said classical ballet -- and yes really we shd take this particular idea to a different thread)
― mark s, Monday, 12 February 2018 20:40 (six years ago) link
maybe the john cassavetes thread
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Monday, 12 February 2018 20:47 (six years ago) link
Morbs: in your opinion how should these allegations be dealt with?
as a hypothetical: famous actress A accuses famous director X of sexual misconduct.
what should happen?
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 12 February 2018 21:21 (six years ago) link
Last week, or 50 years past / 90 years past?
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Monday, 12 February 2018 21:25 (six years ago) link
5 years past
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, 12 February 2018 21:29 (six years ago) link