the alt-right

Is that extreme poverty reduction figure global or US?

Global.

that makes more sense.

capitalism isn't a magic demon -- when you move towards an individualized economy (aka no forced inheritance) you gain economic growth, you create opportunities for people who might otherwise grow up and die on the same family homestead, etc.

yes, capitalism has inarguably done a wonderful job of accelerating productive forces and raising living standards both in the US and abroad, but I don't see how it can offer a believably hopeful vision for more of this growth in the future to the average american as we stare down climate change, automation, and (yes) skyrocketing inequality

you'd hope that we could restrain those negative impulses but we have a different problem which is that democracies have a very difficult time getting anything done at all and esp our democracy in the US. if one guy owned everything and made all the decisions he could just be like "no more coal, everyone gets fed" etc. alternatively he could be like, "let's kill a ton of people for fun." so there are trade offs.

Andrew Farrell is extremely otm, btw

I don't think you need to think capitalism is a "magic demon" to think it doesn't allow for great strategies to deal with our most pressing problems.

the problem w/ capitalism is that it's all about rewarding acquisition and particularly vis-a-vis inequality the ownership of capital tends to generate more and more capital until everything is owned by the same few people. but the only path out of that afaict is gov intervention / redistribution etc. but those are things that assume you're going to keep capitalism bc if you're planning on moving forward you don't need to redistribute you just nationalize the whole thing and then deal with those sets of problems - how do you handle power being concentrated in the hands of the few? is there a meaningful difference between a few people owning everything for themselves or a few people owning everything as representatives of the populace? ideally you'd want to combine some kind of feedback mechanism along with nationalization so that you can force those representatives to exercise their power responsibly but the problem w/ giving all the assets to a small group of people is that now any kind of democratic check is undermined. i feel like democracy can only work if the ppl participating in it not only have skin in the game but have skin at all. otherwise you're depending on the largesse of the guy in charge and this is ultimately different from an enlightened despot how? i've looked into actual worker run enterprises but successes tend to be extremely limited, i'm not sure you can run an entire country using that kind of collectivism - someone is going to be making decisions, etc. so assume we stick with capitalism bc that allows all kinds of things - what we need to figure out is how to put meaningful breaks on the excesses that are produced. democracy has so far been vulnerable - both bc ppl w/ all the capital can (and do) take steps to undermine true democratic participation (a. undermining democracy) and bc democracy itself is weak, we have trouble generating consensus, people are not perfect voters/actors so they have trouble executing their will in a productive manner (b. democracy itself). idk i hope for some kind of new noblesse oblige where the ppl w/ capital realize they're gonna be murdered by the peasantry if they don't clean things up. however w/ transnational corporations, easy global travel, global finance, etc, the kochs or thiel or whoever can just book it if the peasants come to the gate w/ the pitchforks. so i don't know what the solution is and tbh i'm v pessimistic about the future. i just don't think that capitalism is quite the boogyman here since a lot of the issues we're dealing w/ are not limited to a free market economy and could even be exacerbated by some of the alternatives.

tldr who cares i have work to do sorry for wasting everyone's time

I'm not sure I like measuring suffering in percentages. Surely it's the total number that is important?

I think those are very reasonable fears mordy. my hope is that we see some real-world models start to emerge and provide new strategies. (this is why I think every leftist, including me, is going to be completely insufferable whenever the next UK election gets triggered)

Great post, Mordy – mostly mirrors my own worries and scepticism.

I'm not sure I like measuring suffering in percentages. Surely it's the total number that is important?

― Leaghaidh am brón an t-anam bochd (dowd), Tuesday, February 13, 2018 8:32 AM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/repugnant-conclusion/

I'm not a utilitarian, never mind a negative one.

I just mean that I don't see the good of 45% of people starving vs 50% (say) if it's a greater number of people starving.

Are they ours or theirs starving

Mordy otm obv

Also inequality is a strange thing to measure on even if everyone agreed what we meant by inequality

Oh boy, guess who got printed in the Independent for writing about this:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jordan-peterson-clinical-psychologist-canada-popularity-convincing-why-left-wing-alt-right-cathy-a8208301.html

(Hint: Lacan isn’t mentioned till the 4th paragraph in)

make it stop

With Russell Brand for tomorrow's podcast https://t.co/H7GLekceJz pic.twitter.com/ukXAdQXeov

— Jordan B Peterson (@jordanbpeterson) February 13, 2018

smh @ both of these developments

pwease save us youtube daddy

oh god

Russell Brand isn’t that bad

politically he seems mostly fine? I just find him incredibly annoying lmao

Hes a vapid slapped with good vocabular momentum

slapper

Yeah. I kinda can’t help but empathize with his whole working-out-his-ideas in public thing though. Also he turned away like 20 million dollars he could have claimed after his divorce from Katy Perry.

Big fucking kudos for shagging Katy Perry for free that guy

I have a fairly low threshold for praising people

We may not have that in common

slapped with good vocabular momentum

I love this btw. Joycean.

I have a fairly low threshold for praising people

Yes, that's clear.

Ok, you can’t just second my own self-deprecating comment like it’s your own insult. It’s in the FAQ.

eh, brand is an idiot forever for that "you shouldn't vote" stuff from a few years back

xp treeship otm that shit is lower than sarcasm

I like Brand's podcast (despite him being occasionally annoying--which is really only when he tries to be funny) and think he's pretty sharp but doing this right after Sam Harris means I'm gonna have to take a pass on listening to it.

i liked brand's amy winehouse eulogy

I think peterson just tweeted to a zizek parody account... calling for a duel. He pinned it. Unreal.

Tbf mistaking a zizek parody for zizek is extremely relatable

I'm not a fan of Brand but he has quite an audience and I dunno why you would use that to introduce ppl to Peterson.

Russell Brand isn’t that bad

― treeship 2, Wednesday, 14 February 2018 01:32 (eight hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You deserve to be FP'd to death for this.

Love how Mordy looked into worker run enterprises and inferred a whole little dystopia out of it. Are you writing this shit up as a novel Mordy where can I buy it?

Cut him some slack, the lad's feeling pessimistic :(

I'll try but I can't make any promises.

I didn't know Russell speaks big words fast = Joycean, but it's just another day on ilxor dot com.

Can't quite parse the man-bun plus what looks like it might be an Alcoholics Anonymous hoodie.

Russell BRAND amirite

eh, brand is an idiot forever for that "you shouldn't vote" stuff from a few years back

he was pretty much the only person in the public eye trying to articulate this despite how common a view it is & I've yet to see a good counter argument. if miliband hadn't made the changes to the labour party that allowed for corbynism i wld still agree w him. ppl who are much less politically active or effective feel unselfconscious chiding him for his irresponsibility. this is often the case w brand, who more than most ppl just gets dismissed wholesale for a few moral failings or just bc he irks (& obv you can wonder what it says about the culture that a handsome, optimistic, peacocking, working class autodidact annoys so many)

I wasn't aware Mark E. Smith annoyed that many people tbf.

oh you

ogmor otm