Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

Bc the media is antisocial and directly profits from this shit.

so third-rate tv psychology experts can ‘explain’ the killer’s motivations and ghoulish journos can start doorstepping their friends and families

points taken. Guess my real question is why we as society haven't demanded they stop it.

because people enjoy watching it i guess

https://i.imgur.com/F74mFrg.png

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/02/15/opinion/congress-gun-progress.html

On that topic of the videos, the news here this morning showed one student commenting how "all the kids had their phones out, snapchatting what was happening" and I felt this sick lurch of "wtf is wrong with society that this is how kids react to a murderer in their school".

It’s how kids react to everything that happens and I don’t blame them

also, context of camera phone recordings having played a huge role with e.g. police shootings and so on... it may be ppl's first instinct in response to a crisis. maybe it even provides some helpful measure of comfort or remove, i don't know. the body and the mind, or really the limbic system, do things in high-stress situations that aren't really subject to analysis of "what were you thinking?"

it's not like they were walking around like that Black Mirror episode just impassively holding out their phones recording the carnage cmon now

when you're unwilling to even consider that guns might be net negative for society, to entertain any proposals of gun control, these are the sort of positions you're forced to take.

I had assumed the "arm the teachers" tweet was ironic at first, until I realized otherwise.

one of the students said that the 911 operators told them to stop calling because the lines were overloaded with reports from the school. idk a snapchat / insta story broadcast seems like a substitute for a distress signal in that case

also “arm the teachers” makes me want to vomit. what is wrong with this fucking country

https://digitrigger.com/digitrigger-12

jesus fucking christ - it's the bump stock times a million

"Arm the teachers," fuck you. They're buying their own pencils and glue sticks, who's going to pay for their Glocks?

I'm sure the government will have no problem funding that to boost profits for thier gun lobbiest. It would be sweet contract

lots of military surplus weapons available I expect, and maybe some defective body armor from Iraq lying around to go with them.

Welcome to The Ratio, Eric Lipton!

Impressive how articulate and well educated these kids are from this school. Obviously a good school. Another sad reason for yesterday's events. https://t.co/BbAZP5hTh9

— Eric Lipton (@EricLiptonNYT) February 15, 2018

Fucking idiot

it's not like they were walking around like that Black Mirror episode just impassively holding out their phones recording the carnage cmon now

And that is not what I was suggesting either, geez.

I think Doctor Casino is right. The phones are this weird emotional crutch of connectedness we carry around with us. It makes sense that’s where they’d turn.

it's not like they can fucking turn to us

lol that lipton tweet seems to have been deleted now. What a tone deaf pile of shit to post.

It’s probably reflective of how he sees the world

They were a credit to their respective races.

Hi, Florida!

@EricLiptonNYT
I deleted an earlier tweet that was intensively written.

I don't know about video games re: violence - we're a less violent society overall than at any point in modern history (and certainly since the spike in the '70s and '80s), the decline has come in concert with the rise of video games.

― louise ck (milo z), Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:46 PM (yesterday)

just want to address the logic in this post, because people on both sides of these debates often misuse it

for one thing, while it is true that violent crime is, in general, on the decline, the same certainly cannot be said of mass shootings, which would seem to me to be more likely to be influenced by these video games.

also, even if violent video games were assumed (for the sake of argument) to contribute to gun violence, it would be fallacious to point to an overall decline in gun voilence, coinciding with the advent of violent video games, as evidence that the video games have no effect. it could be that gun violence would be even lower without the video games. logically, this argument is similar (though obviously usually made by different groups of people) to saying that chicago's gun violence rate is evidence that stricter gun control laws have no effect: I don't think any serious person would suggest that it would be lower with laxer laws

that said, from a public health perspective, it's important to keep in mind that the vast majority of gun deaths are not mass-shooting related, and that more than half are actually suicides. I too doubt that banning these video games would have much of an effect on the number of people who die from guns. fucking banning guns might, though

talking about dissolving assemblies and censoring forms of expression is definitely helpful

tom it seems like you feel really strongly about violent video games. I agree that debating whether they should be banned is not the best use of our time, when clearly the most impactful thing we could do is gun control

according to the Guardian these are the stats on mass shootings in the US (defined as more than 4 people shot in one incident, not including the shooter):

1,624 mass shootings in the past 5 years

that's almost one per day

christ i feel sick

i have an unfortunate tendency towards apocalyptic thinking but it's hard not to see this as a side-effect of large parts of america just wholesale embracing nihilism in the face of the climate-related disaster coming down the pipe

i think you're giving people too much credit

I was gonna say.

tom it seems like you feel really strongly about violent video games. I agree that debating whether they should be banned is not the best use of our time, when clearly the most impactful thing we could do is gun control

i did say it was an unfortunate tendency tbf

They’re embracing nihilism for some reason. Or at lease an insane level of self pity that clouds their ability to see other people as fully human. Which is a kind of nihilism — thinking that you are all that matters.

Just want to clarify re: my own statements abt video games upthread that I am by no means suggesting they be banned! And I don't have an impression from those expressing the same concerns itt that they do, either.

The public policy answer to this is gun control + access to mental health care (along with other types of health care.) but something fucked up is happening on a cultural level when this is how 1,624 people choose to handle their despair

keep in mind that figure includes gang violence etc as long as it meets the 4+ people shot in one incident criterion

Gang violence is its own kind of nihilism, but that’s a good point.

I don’t think video games have much to do with this, honestly.

the thought i keep returning to, when people suggest that the answer to mass shootings is arming more people, is that i don't want to ever have to murder anyone, even in self-defence, and i'm sure i'm not alone in feeling that way

how have things gone so far wrong that mainstream thought can routinely include the idea that ordinary citizens should be ready at all times to murder other citizens in preference to making it more difficult for gun violence to occur at all

That's just the way things are in 1872.

There’s a thing where a lot of people tend to se their fellow humans as mostly enemies. Like, they feel surrounded by a hostile world. It’s mostly a right wing tendency but I think it transcends ideology and is an American thing.

i've posted this before but right after sandy hook i was home for the holidays and went to my dad's gym. parents' gyms could be a whole thread in itself, but i was in there changing and these three, for want of a better word, good ol' boys are in there changing. one of them's older, maybe in his 60s. i could see they weren't close friends, but knew each other in passing, from the locker room. and the old guy offers:

"you know how people are saying teachers ought to be armed now"

the two other guys cast a wary eye at him. "well i don't know about that"

the old guy's got a wicked twinkle in his eye and continues:
"i'd take it one step further"

"..."

"i'd arm the students!"

"you'd what now?"

the two other guys are not sure how they should react to this. is he joking? should they agree?

"i'd arm the students... but only students with a 4.0 grade point average would be eligible!"

loud guffaws all around. now they know he's joking. but he's not done...

"i was gonna write that in a letter to the newspaper" he says. the other guys ask him why he didn't.

"cause my wife said they'd probably print it!"

I was sure "arm the teachers" was some South Park reference. But I'm not surprised anymore there's swathes of people in the US that believe more firearms is the way to go tbh.

It will probably take the mass shooting equivalent of the Tet Offensive for anything to change. And by that point the country will be too far gone and we will be forced to withdraw.

My Aussie (by marriage) sister in law really wants her kids to spend a year in the US, so they're moving back for 2019-2020. My mother in law, minus much tact, was incredulous. Like, now, of all times, is when you want to move back to the US and send your kids to school here?

The latest bullshit push I've heard from the right is that the NRA isn't as big as a factor as people claim, because pro gun people are mobilized voters and the money the NRA raises and donates ultimately doesn't make that much of a direct difference. Yeah, but the NRA sure helps them mobilize and vote! This is yet another thing that can be put on the table in November. The NRA/GOP wants to kill your kids and will do everything in their power to stop you from protecting them.