US Politics, February 2018: Our country was founded by geniuses, but it’s being run by idiots

Message Bookmarked
Bookmark Removed
Not all messages are displayed: show all messages (3103 of them)

trump Jr is in India

GURGAON, India — When the Trump family jet lands in India this week, the family member taking a tour of the world’s largest democracy — with a Secret Service detail in tow — won’t be the president on a diplomatic mission. It will be his eldest son, Donald Trump Jr., on a sales trip.

But Indians might be forgiven for not making much of the distinction.

The visit by the younger Mr. Trump, intended to help sell more than $1 billion in luxury residential units being built by the Trumps and their local partners, has been promoted with newspaper advertisements that read: “Trump has arrived. Have you?”

the important thing to keep in mind here is that the trump family's real estate interests will have absolutely nothing to do with the way that the trump administration conducts foreign policy with India. we can all trust the trump family to refuse to let one influence the other.

i remember the corned beef of my childhood (Karl Malone), Monday, 19 February 2018 18:53 (six years ago) link

Having often seen the effects that one clever amateur troll, bent on sowing disruption and discord, can have on the discourse of ordinary internet forums, I'm not inclined to discount the effect that more than 50 paid professional trolls could have on an election, when they are injected into social media amplifiers with the reach of Twitter and Facebook, over a period of years years, backed up by sophisticated data collection they can use to refine and perfect their technique.

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 19 February 2018 18:55 (six years ago) link

feel like Podesta's entire email box getting hacked and dumped onto the internet and dominating the most crucial month of campaigning had something to do with it too

frogbs, Monday, 19 February 2018 19:37 (six years ago) link

"soul cooking" was brilliant trolling

A is for (Aimless), Monday, 19 February 2018 19:43 (six years ago) link

Another GOP Rep., Tom Rooney in Florida, declining to run for re-election.

Josh in Chicago, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:47 (six years ago) link

vic berger is talented

He is You’re president weather you like it or not: Get use to it! 🖕🏻
Happy presidence day, Mr. @realDonaldTrump.

RETWEET if He is the number one (#1) greatest prez America ever knew and He did more in one year then Abe Linkin did in 8 years. @potus #PresidentsDay2018 #maga pic.twitter.com/2p9vN7seIn

— Vic Berger IV (@VicBergerIV) February 19, 2018

marcos, Monday, 19 February 2018 20:58 (six years ago) link

vic berger is a hero

NEW CHIMP THREAT (bizarro gazzara), Monday, 19 February 2018 21:00 (six years ago) link

his Logan Paul video was probably the hardest I've laughed at anything on youtube in years

frogbs, Monday, 19 February 2018 21:04 (six years ago) link

A lot that’s correct in this mini thread.

It was a really close race. 8000 separate things could have flipped it to trump, from her dumb incompetent campaign to Comey. OF COURSE Russia flipped the race! They only had to get him a few thousand votes. pundits who ask "did it matter?" are dumb as a brick. https://t.co/Cgrpu0UZgF

— warm weather expert (@paulythegun) February 19, 2018

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 19 February 2018 21:08 (six years ago) link

Also Walker Bragman wrote the Salon piece “The liberal case for Trump”. You laugh at him.

Nerdstrom Poindexter, Monday, 19 February 2018 21:11 (six years ago) link

Here's a read

Exclusive: Special counsel Robert Mueller’s interest in Jared Kushner has grown to include his efforts to secure financing for his company from foreign investors during the presidential transition https://t.co/Y7jOtwau1S pic.twitter.com/HuMmcIZXlL

— CNN (@CNN) February 19, 2018

Ned Raggett, Monday, 19 February 2018 21:28 (six years ago) link

The new Pennsylvania district map apparently resembles democracy

El Tomboto, Monday, 19 February 2018 21:58 (six years ago) link

For the weary White House, Florida shooting offered a ‘reprieve’ from scandals

The White House was under siege.

Domestic abuse allegations against a senior aide were ignored, pointing to a potential high-level coverup. Two Cabinet secretaries were caught charging taxpayers for luxury travel. A Playboy centerfold alleged an extramarital affair with the president. And the special counsel’s Russia investigation was intensifying. The tumult was so intense that there was fervent speculation that President Trump might even fire his chief of staff.

But a gun massacre at a Florida high school last Wednesday, which left 17 dead, seemed to shift the media glare away from the Trump scandals and gave embattled aides an opportunity to refocus on handling a rare crisis not of their own making. While the White House mourned the loss of life in Parkland, Fla., some aides privately acknowledged that the tragedy offered a breather from the political storm.

...

“For everyone, it was a distraction or a reprieve,” said one White House official, speaking anonymously to reflect internal conversations. “A lot of people here felt like it was a reprieve from seven or eight days of just getting pummeled.”

grawlix (unperson), Monday, 19 February 2018 22:15 (six years ago) link

i wanna see pics of kush juxtaposed next to each other as often as possible in the coming months

global tetrahedron, Monday, 19 February 2018 22:17 (six years ago) link

i want to bully kushner so bad

NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Monday, 19 February 2018 22:21 (six years ago) link

kush and mueller that is

global tetrahedron, Monday, 19 February 2018 22:29 (six years ago) link

So glad that the senseless slaughter of children was able to give the White House some relief amid all of the drama they've created for themselves.

Animal Bag's Greatest Hits Vol. 5 (Old Lunch), Monday, 19 February 2018 22:46 (six years ago) link

Kush and Muel's Excellent Adventure

WilliamC, Monday, 19 February 2018 22:56 (six years ago) link

Can’t help but wonder if kushners omnipresence in the Russia and subsidiary investigations has to do with his lack of full security clearance and the unhinged fury of his father in law? P sure when you’re a target of an investigation they have to let you know...

officer sonny bonds, lytton pd (mayor jingleberries), Monday, 19 February 2018 23:58 (six years ago) link

.@MittRomney has announced he is running for the Senate from the wonderful State of Utah. He will make a great Senator and worthy successor to @OrrinHatch, and has my full support and endorsement!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) February 20, 2018

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/161129212927-trump-romney-exlarge-169.jpg

grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 02:47 (six years ago) link

well played, senator, well played

j., Tuesday, 20 February 2018 03:13 (six years ago) link

when you’re a target of an investigation they have to let you know...

Hello. May I speak to the Mafia Don of the house? Yes. Thank you, I can hold.

Sir, this Agent Michael Murphy of the New York office of the FBI. Yes. I said Murphy, sir. Spelled M-U-R-P-H-Y. We're just calling to let you know we are opening an investigation of you for racketeering and conspiracy to commit murder. Yes. You're welcome. Have a nice rest of your day, sir. Goodbye.

A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 04:58 (six years ago) link

Nah it's not like that it's when you ask them straight out they can't lie

DUMPKINS! (darraghmac), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 08:27 (six years ago) link

What if they have their fingers crossed behind their back?

Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 13:08 (six years ago) link

when you’re a target of an investigation they have to let you know...

When you're a special counsel, they let you do it. You can grab 'em by the subpoena.

persona non gratin (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 13:38 (six years ago) link

Hmm, interesting new twists here:

BREAKING New plea scheduled in Mueller probe. Alex Van der Zwaan set to plead guilty this afternoon in false statements. pic.twitter.com/NYMNz2dtRt

— Spencer Hsu (@hsu_spencer) February 20, 2018

Wow. Van der Zwaan is a former Skadden attorney who worked with Greg Craig on that sketchy report for Yanukovych. Big black eye for the firm. https://t.co/tPREC0gmZv

— Matthew Miller (@matthewamiller) February 20, 2018

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Mueller-Charges-Son-in-Law-of-Russian-Oligarch-Alex-van-der-Zwaan-474579893.html

Alex van der Zwaan, an attorney and the son-in-law of Russian billionaire German Khan, faces charges of making false statements. The charges were dated Feb. 16 but unsealed Tuesday. He is expected to plead guilty in court Tuesday afternoon.

Van der Zwaan allegedly lied to Mueller's office last November about when and how he communicated with Rick Gates, the former Trump campaign aide who was indicted last fall.

Mueller's office alleges that Van der Zwaan failed to disclose conversations he had with Gates and another person, and deleted emails that were sought by the office.

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 14:52 (six years ago) link

A little more detail

Van der Zwaan was speaking w/ investigators about his work with Skadden Arps in 2012 when the firm did work for the Ukrainian Ministry of Justice to prepare a report on the trial of Yulia Timoshenko. Van der Zwaan’s plea hearing will be at 2:30 today at US District Court in DC.

— David Wright (@DavidWright_CNN) February 20, 2018

German Khan is one of the lawyers in the Steele Dossier suing for libel https://t.co/YxFDs7ZWU9

— Jesse Rodriguez (@JesseRodriguez) February 20, 2018

Ned Raggett, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:02 (six years ago) link

a rare bit of credit due to MSNBC for this

Tried to tamp down the troll farm panic on @chrislhayes show last night. It's 90 people with a shaky grasp of English and a rudimentary understanding of U.S. politics shitposting on Facebook. https://t.co/Y93er6ZMJg

— Adrian Chen (@AdrianChen) February 20, 2018

Simon H., Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:14 (six years ago) link

credit for downplaying the seriousness of this?

akm, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:16 (six years ago) link

simon has already said this whole thing = benghazi, don't bother

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:17 (six years ago) link

Kush and Muel's Excellent Adventure

― WilliamC, Monday, February 19, 2018 10:56 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

*air guitar*

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:19 (six years ago) link

internet savvy, educated, non-senior citizens aren't the people being targeted with these facebook posts

T'Chadwick (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:20 (six years ago) link

credit for at least entertaining a less hysterical narrative, yes. xps

Simon H., Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:21 (six years ago) link

It's 90 people with a shaky grasp of English and a rudimentary understanding of U.S. politics shitposting on Facebook

Again, an astute point whose baffling implicit conclusion is 'so who even cares' rather than 'who captured the hearts and minds of millions of shitpost-forwarding Americans with a shaky grasp of English and a rudimentary understanding of U.S. politics'.

Animal Bag's Greatest Hits Vol. 5 (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:25 (six years ago) link

shitposting is praxis, comrades

NEW CHIMP THREAT (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:27 (six years ago) link

I _get_ the progressive-left's resistance to grappling with the Russia story--if you follow the breadcrumbs you wind up in a place that practically demands sabre-rattling war talk, and America has been meddling in elections since forever, and seeking outside forces to blame for Clinton's loss belies the idea that her candidacy was doomed to lose on its own, which was an article of faith for a lot of Green types in the months leading up to November: "she won't win the rust belt. Trump will."

And there's even a certain amount of pride involved, I think--when I see my friends at People For Bernie writing bizarrely defensive stuff like this as if an indictment of a Russian troll farm is really about them, it almost feels like "nuh uh Clinton didn't lose because Russia she lost because WE made sure everyone knew she was BAD, here are some graphs about our Facebook reach as if they're a counterpoint."

But cmon. Asymmetry. 90 people with a shaky grasp of the English language didn't _swing the election_--but that's hardly the argument or the point. They contributed to an atmosphere of destabilization. If our ethics on this are to have consistency, then its as fucked when Russia does it in France or the US or anywhere else as when the US does it in Russia or the global south or wherever. There's no moral high ground in contrarianism here.

BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:32 (six years ago) link

hoos otm

NEW CHIMP THREAT (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:33 (six years ago) link

Yes. Also, why is the lefty go-to 'come on, it's not like Clinton lost the election because of the Russians!' Like, the actual, immediate effects of the meddling are almost beside the point. It's fucked that they meddled (yes, just as fucked as when the US has meddled similarly), and the long-term effects seem potentially more damaging than whether or not they had a significant impact on the election.

Animal Bag's Greatest Hits Vol. 5 (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:39 (six years ago) link

I can certainly appreciate the "culture of destabilization" take. It's principally the tenor of all this I object to, precisely due to where these sorts of campaigns wind up going from a US context, as hoos alluded to.

Simon H., Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:39 (six years ago) link

the margin was 70,000 votes in three states, how is anyone here able to conclude that it didn't swing the election?

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:40 (six years ago) link

I'd say those bots persuaded enough people such that the release of the Comey letter made November inevitable.

morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:42 (six years ago) link

this election was historically close - I'm not sure exactly what the reach of these dudes efforts really were, but it would not surprise me to see 538 argue that it could have plausibly made the difference.

of course whatever they did pales in comparison to leaking thousands of DNC emails into the wild and sparking a month long 'controversy' that amounted to essentially nothing, peddled by networks who were too afraid to come off as biased because they were so hard on a man who was obviously the dumbest and most corrupt candidate of all time. It really was kind of a perfect storm there.

frogbs, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:44 (six years ago) link

I agree with HOOS. Hadrian, i think the point is that *other* things *also* could've swung that many votes.

I can't keep up with this multiplying cast of characters as the indictments continue. With a few exceptions, seem like colorless drones compared to the Watergate circus.

ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:44 (six years ago) link

First the drones, then the workers...

Animal Bag's Greatest Hits Vol. 5 (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:47 (six years ago) link

totally agree there are probably dozens of factors which taken independently would have pushed the result

Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:50 (six years ago) link

the margin was 70,000 votes in three states, how is anyone here able to conclude that it didn't swing the election?

― Rhine Jive Click Bait (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, February 20, 2018 3:40 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Exactly, and especially given that the specific facts recounted in the indictment do not cover the universe of the sort of activity described, which may be much larger.

Moo Vaughn, Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:53 (six years ago) link

I find it facile to conclude that the bots "persuaded" anyone, rather than bringing to the surface their prejudices.

This article (with Oprah!) shows the kind of folks at play here.

Daniel: I feel like he cares more about me than the last president did. He cares about issues affecting my day-to-day life more. Like, the tax cuts. That'll increase my bottom line.

Laura: I feel safer now than I ever did the last eight years of Obama. Oh my God.

Oprah Winfrey: How do you feel safer? Tell me how you feel safer?

Laura: Well, I feel like I can say Merry Christmas to anyone I want wherever I want.

When there is this much carelessness among the voting population, you are already vulnerable to a president like this one. If the bots did anything, it was to give these voters the illusion of community, that they weren't alone in thinking what they think. But the rot has long been there.

droit au butt (Euler), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:55 (six years ago) link

I don't know that anyone is arguing otherwise. This campaign has always seemed more about normalization than persuasion.

Animal Bag's Greatest Hits Vol. 5 (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:57 (six years ago) link

xp that's persuasion tho, man: directs people to action by exploiting their pre-existing beliefs, values, etc.

j., Tuesday, 20 February 2018 15:58 (six years ago) link


This thread has been locked by an administrator

You must be logged in to post. Please either login here, or if you are not registered, you may register here.