Another fucking spree shooting. Great.

NRA spokeswoman: "Many in legacy media love mass shootings. You guys love it... Crying white mothers are ratings gold to you..." https://t.co/zdMoiq3AIN pic.twitter.com/gXJ3bussp3

— CNN (@CNN) February 22, 2018

As a reporter, I covered more than a thousand handgun fatalities and spent a full year following homicide detectives from scene to scene. Covered a mass shooting.

Did I love it?

Fuck you, you stupid, senseless, sociopathic, Moloch-worshipping mouthpiece for this American hell. https://t.co/dWIPXncVP4

— David Simon (@AoDespair) February 23, 2018

We have notified the NRA that we are ending the NRA’s rental car discount program with Hertz.

— Hertz (@Hertz) February 23, 2018

I had a conversation several years ago with a libertarian friend who thought everyone should just shut up about guns and let people do what they want. He laid out all the reasons serious gun regulations wouldn't fly under the 2nd Amendment, and basically said, how would you stop it? The only thing I could thing of was stigmatization. Like with cigarettes. You don't have to ban it, you just make it less socially acceptable. Maybe that's starting.

I think its one reason it works everywhere else! People are *horrified* by guns in most places not proud of the fucking things.

They never see any. The first time I saw a gun in real life was a policeman in London carrying one - outside the US embassy, where else? I was in my 30s, for sure.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/father-school-shooting-survivor-allegedly-doctored-cnn-emails-article-1.3839063

That dad is such a dick.

I knew as soon as RCP & Fox were the only outlets pushing that story that there was more to it. What a fuckface. Poor kid.

Delta is reaching out to the NRA to let them know we will be ending their contract for discounted rates through our group travel program. We will be requesting that the NRA remove our information from their website.

— Delta (@Delta) February 24, 2018

I hope this is an avalanche

i'm generally pretty cynical about the political import of corporate partnerships or w/e but the number of companies bailing on the NRA is pretty impressive

This is such an amazing turn of events. I do hope it continues.

Anyone have theories on why this particular massacre seems to be turning the tide? I'm sure the organization of these kids plays a big part.

it makes me think of this interview of edouard louis
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/mar/19/interview-edouard-louis-the-end-of-eddy-front-national-marine-le-pen-kim-willsher

"Some subjects should be considered obsolete, and yes, let’s shut down the debate because they are obsolete. I grew up as a queer child in a small village. Lots of gay children in this situation suffer the same things: being threatened, beaten up. When I published my book in Paris, some said, ‘Well, if you’d grown up in a bourgeois milieu, people would have thought the same thing, they just wouldn’t have hit you.’ Are they joking? I would rather that, than being constantly beaten up for being queer. Of course I’d rather people weren’t racist or homophobic, but if they are they can keep it to themselves. Just shut up.

“And if they don’t and won’t, we need to start redistributing shame, making people feel ashamed, so when they repeat what the FN is saying, we reply, ‘Quelle honte!’ [Shame on you]. That would be progress, that would be democracy, not letting people say what they want, not giving their racist, homophobic views the same value, the same credibility as other propositions. Not giving those stupid, unacceptable propositions weight and currency by responding to them. This has been the great tragedy of recent years in literature, the press, intellectual life, this ideology that in a debate all views have the same weight, that we can debate with the FN, with the extreme right. That’s wrong.

“We should say to the FN and far right: just shut up. Keep your stupid, nasty views to yourselves. This shame business is quite important."

xp The nation has been terrorized for a year-plus now, people have been activated, high schoolers included. To me this seems the clear difference—networks for activism nationwide have grown in strength and number.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/03/05/the-nra-lobbyist-behind-floridas-pro-gun-policies

Marion Hammer of the Florida NRA has had such influence over the years. Scary

I know a couple different people (I'm sure we all do) who have argued that Trump, by expediting the logical extension of status-quo corruption, will facilitate change in a way his opponent never could have.

Obv this is a batshit crazy reason to abide his presidency, not least because it fails to consider the long-term damage to climate, broken alliances, the deportations and on and on. But I do think we're gonna be able to identify decades-in-waiting corrections that might not have happened otherwise...?

November decides a lot.

The NRA just went beyond the pale with their messaging over the past year. They're practically inciting violence against progressives and protesters in this video, which is probably the worst own goal I've seen from any political lobby in years. The term "stochastic terrorism" was made for this sort of thing.

i'm generally pretty cynical about the political import of corporate partnerships or w/e but the number of companies bailing on the NRA is pretty impressive

― gbx, Saturday, February 24, 2018 11:10 AM

I think the real push to get corporate partners to bail on the NRA here is disincentivize any actual pros to NRA membership. I know you have to be card-carrying to shoot at some percentage of shooting ranges/clubs around the country, but if you're not getting preferred rates on your Visa or discounts on your car rentals and airfare, what's the point in remaining a member?

that's a good point, ty

xxpost Wooooooow, how have I not seen that NRA video before? That is almost literally insane.

yeah good point johnny fever

The few gun owners I know are not NRA members.

The NRA may keep them on its rolls but perhaps hasn't updated its contact information, as it wildly inflates its membership numbers (~ 5 million).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjqOpd_7Vrw

I wonder if this also applies to Gun Owners of America (1.5 million), an even more extreme organization that criticizes the NRA for its willingness to compromise.

I am seeing a sea change here. The NRA have just not been able to talk their way out of this one. It's not just corporate policies - people I know are who were pro-gun are _changing their minds_. I don't know why it's happening now and not before, but I'm grateful.

As I understand it, these corporations cutting ties are a big deal because the NRA has been facing dwindling memberships and funds. If this makes a real dent, we could see their political influence significantly diminished.

United is notifying the NRA that we will no longer offer a discounted rate to their annual meeting and we are asking that the NRA remove our information from their website.

— United Airlines (@united) February 24, 2018

As outrage continues over Florida school shooting, NRA loses sponsors and corporate support https://t.co/McDHqVKxiK

— L.A. Times National (@latimesnational) February 24, 2018

I may have said this upthread but it feels a bit like the Weinstein case as being the inception point for the #metoo moment, a very organic response coupled with a completely despicable and tone-deaf defense.

I think it's leftover anger from Vegas and Orlando and maybe especially Newtown, the sense that this organization does not give a single shit about anything but their precious toys. Moral corruption favoring guns over people, fantasy over reality.

this might have been mentioned because it came out earlier this week, but this quinnipiac poll found that 97% support universal background checks, which is just kind of amazing. i can't remember ever seeing a poll result, any poll, that high for anything. you could ask "is the sun hot?" and expect around 95-97% to agree, with some people on the side opposing or not sure. 97% supporting universal background checks is pretty much EVERYONE agreeing. it is shameful for congress not to pass something, given that fact. (ron howard voice, now detached from the world of television and wandering the world commenting on messageboards: 'congress didn't pass anything')

many of the other poll results also show strong support for gun control. it's heartening until you realize that on almost every single issue, republicans are the outliers who disagree with everyone else, and polarized districts mean that house republicans are incentivized to ignore everyone except their own base. here's an excerpt (with ~annotations of the republican subset of the results~)

American voters support stricter gun laws 66 - 31 percent (~republicans disagree: 34 support stricter gun laws, 60 oppose~), the highest level of support ever measured by the independent Quinnipiac University National Poll, with 50 - 44 percent support among gun owners and 62 - 35 percent support from white voters with no college degree and 58 - 38 percent support among white men.

Today's result is up from a negative 47 - 50 percent measure of support in a December 23, 2015, survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University Poll.

Support for universal background checks is itself almost universal, 97 - 2 percent (~same with republicans amazingly: 97-2~), including 97 - 3 percent among gun owners. Support for gun control on other questions is at its highest level since the Quinnipiac University Poll began focusing on this issue in the wake of the Sandy Hook massacre:

67 - 29 percent for a nationwide ban on the sale of assault weapons; (~republicans disagree: 43 support, 49 oppose~)
83 - 14 percent for a mandatory waiting period for all gun purchases. (~republicans agree: 77 support, 19 oppose~) It is too easy to buy a gun in the U.S. today, American voters say 67 - 3 percent (~only 38% of republicans think it's too easy~). If more people carried guns, the U.S. would be less safe, voters say 59 - 33 percent (~republicans disagree. 67% think we would be safer if more carried guns~). Congress needs to do more to reduce gun violence, voters say 75 - 17 percent (~republicans agree, more narrowly: 51-35~).

Stricter gun control would do more to reduce gun violence in schools, 40 percent of voters say, while 34 percent say metal detectors would do more and 20 percent say armed teachers are the answer. (~republicans totally disagree. given these three options, 41% would choose metal detectors, 38% would arm teachers, and only only 9% would choose stricter gun laws.~)

"If you think Americans are largely unmoved by the mass shootings, you should think again. Support for stricter gun laws is up 19 points in little more than 2 years," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.

"In the last two months, some of the biggest surges in support for tightening gun laws comes from demographic groups you may not expect, independent voters, men, and whites with no college degree."

Mass killings by U.S. citizens is a bigger problem than mass killings by people from other countries, American voters say 70 - 20 percent. (~republicans disagree. 48% think people from other countries are the bigger problem, 36% think it's U.S. citizens.~

I think it's leftover anger from Vegas and Orlando and maybe especially Newtown, the sense that this organization does not give a single shit about anything but their precious toys. Moral corruption favoring guns over people, fantasy over reality.

― omar little, Saturday, February 24, 2018 12:22 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Dollars to donuts they don't even really care about their precious toys. They're just an amoral means to lucrative ends.

This is a bit like following the early days of Black Lives Matter as well. That weird feeling that we're past a tipping point.

Dollars to donuts they don't even really care about their precious toys. They're just an amoral means to lucrative ends.

You are underestimating the appeal of libtears.

xp: I've watched gun collectors in my family stroke their collections. I've seen the odd photographic genre of girls in bikinis (and less) with guns take off in my lifetime. There is absolutely a sexual fetishization of their toys.

I don't think the corporations really care in their corporate mind why their products have consumer appeal, but I wouldn't in the least be surprised if some gun collectors, including executives of pro-gun organizations, took them out for masturbatory sessions.

Gross. pic.twitter.com/rgOOsq5PS3

— Alyssa Milano (@Alyssa_Milano) February 25, 2018

Sanpaku, in fairness I think Old Lunch was talking mostly about Lapierre and Loesch, not the ranknfiley NRA membership. Of those doods I agree there is fetishization of the gun itself.

But also it is used as a symbol of larger tribal culture-war stuff, which is where I think "pissing off the libs" enters into it. Consider:

https://www.vox.com/2015/12/4/9845146/mass-shootings-gun-control

Guns have now ascended to the level of worldview and identity, areas largely beyond the reach of persuasion.

Let us imagine, then, a conservative gun owner — an older white gentleman, let's say, in his 50s, living in the Rust Belt somewhere. When he was growing up, there was living memory of a familiar order....

The role he thought he was meant to play in the world, the privileges and respect that came along with it, have been thrown into doubt. Everything is shifting under his feet....

He's given up a lot, but he won't give up his autonomy or the safety of his family. He'll defend that to the end....

You can tell him about Canada and Australia until you're blue in the face... But you're just another self-righteous liberal on another self-righteous crusade....

You've taken enough — of his taxes, his freedoms, his culture. He won't give you any more.

Now, I think where the strands intersect is that the NRA as an organization is addicted to the money and loyalty and voting power of people who are motivated by these particular strands of pro-gun feeling. Both the glockererotic fascination with the object, and the fact that it has become a tribal symbol like lattes and arugula and hybrid cars or whatever.

Law-abiding, law-abiding, oh and law-abiding! Doctors! Fire fighters! Nurses! Good law-abiding ppl allround! Also we carry guns because it's our RIGHT and DEF not INSANE! And these SCHOOL KILLINGS are in our way, almost infringing on our RIGHTS. We love GUNS and it's our RIGHT, to SHOOT ppl, KILL ppl, so LET US LOVE GUNS. Second mundment yall, lemme smang it. Guns RULE, and R 2 cool 4 school. Fuck yeah Murica, let us shoot GUNS and KILL ppl erryday. FUCK yeah. luv2masturbate2gunviolence as a Murican, fetish otm.

Milano otm.

Stats on Jain and Parsi NRA members plz

From your comment, I'm curious about any pacifist leaning among Parsis. Jains, sure, I've eaten Gujarati cuisine. But Parsis? The Persian empire wasn't pacifist in the least...

Massacre survivor calls for spring break boycotts in Florida

I didn't mean to imply that Parsis are pacifist, just that I was curious about the basis for the NRA's claim that its members represent every religion in the world.

xp: I've watched gun collectors in my family stroke their collections. I've seen the odd photographic genre of girls in bikinis (and less) with guns take off in my lifetime. There is absolutely a sexual fetishization of their toys.

― It's because I'm human, isn't it?! (Sanpaku), Saturday, February 24, 2018 6:55 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't think the corporations really care in their corporate mind why their products have consumer appeal, but I wouldn't in the least be surprised if some gun collectors, including executives of pro-gun organizations, took them out for masturbatory sessions.

― It's because I'm human, isn't it?! (Sanpaku), Saturday, February 24, 2018 6:58 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FObVW2abE68

My NRA-member cold-dead-hands aunt, who I've been foolishly arguing with all week on FB, just posted this story from our hometown without a trace of irony or understanding. It's taking every ounce of willpower to not just reply "THIS STORY MAKES MY POINT FOR ME."

At approximately 8:30 am this morning (Saturday, February 24th ) Lake County Deputy Sheriffs responded to a home at 4515 Maple Street in Perry Township after receiving a call that a man had just shot and killed his sister at that address. Upon arrival deputies attempted repeatedly to make contact from outside the home but received no response. Unsure of the situation inside the home responding Deputy Sheriff's made entry into the home. Deputies found all 3 residents of the home deceased from gun shot wounds.

While the situation is currently under investigation it appears that Ralph Moore Jr. (age 62) lived at this address with his sister Vickie Thornhill (age unknown) and her daughter Arianna Cope (age 19). From information gathered thus far it seems Vickie Thornhill and her daughter were moving out of the home today. Ralph Moore was distraught over them leaving him alone, and he shot and killed both of them. He then called his sister and told her what he had done, and then killed himself.

Detectives and the Lake County Crime Lab are still on scene investigating what appears to be a murder-suicide. No further information is available at this time.

Chief Deputy Frank Leonbruno

...why don't you?

Because she is not the kind of person in a position to be convinced of anything. This person must have suffered from the dreaded Mental Illness, and if he didn't have a gun would have just used a knife.

You've been arguing all week already though, why exclude this relevant point?

(unless you mean you had already given up on the arguing, and are resisting re-entering the fray)

CAN'T STOP EVIL

if he didn't have a gun would have just used a knife

The existence of knives has done wonders for the NRA.