'Even allowing for inflation, this thread is not worth 198 Terry Francises' - EPL 2017-18

not a fan of abide with me in the football context mind you

I can still remember my partner's dad who's now RIP going on a drunk rant about the FA cup being the finest and most respected cup competition in the world. And he was slating Fergie as a complete cunt for that time when he prioritised that mickey mouse thing(World Club Championship or whatever) over the FA cup, or something.

Arsenal's three recent cups have also been obvious cases of papering over the cracks

which cracks? they won the whole thing 3 times!

TBH if we won the FA Cup this year I would celebrate like we'd won the World Cup.

Spoken like a true fan, Matt, bless you.

you're all old. it's easier to win the cup. all sorts of second rate teams have won or made it to the final recently (palace, villa, hull, wigan) so beating them isn't much of a demonstration of prowess. I always thought it was kind of funny that arsenal kept winning it because it made the wenger haters more impotent and thus furious, and also bc arsenal fans seem to hate wembley. I think for most players it comes behind the CL, PL and the international tournaments

They keep throwing the trophies thing at Tottenham but there's only four trophies up for grabs each year (five if you include the Charity Shield) and only two that really matter, both of which are insanely hard to win.

I'd have thought consistently finishing top 4 and having a good tilt at the CL were better yardsticks of success these days.

Although obviously the way the draw has panned out, Spurs have a great chance of winning the FA Cup this year. (Cue QF defeat to Swansea)

I have never understood the emphasis on United not being in the Cup that one year.

It didn't make much impact on the competition as a whole; it didn't seriously devalue the Cup for anyone else. And it was bizarre how United were slated for it for years, when they had only done it, reluctantly perhaps, because they were asked to do it to support a World Cup bid or something.

I have always felt that history was bizarrely rewritten about that episode almost as soon as it took place.

That said, I don't want any teams not to take part in the FA Cup. Except the ones I hate. In fact I would now be OK with United not taking part.

THFC have been fortunate with Cup draws this year but have failed to take advantage of this.

It is not certain that we can beat Rochdale tomorrow, let alone get through the QF. I think I will try to go to tomorrow's match.

prem > champ league > check-a-trade trophy > fa cup > league cup > community shield

hope that helps

It's true that most people now see the Cup as devalued but as a more old-fashioned person, I don't, and think of it as a major honour that it would be thrilling to win.

This reflects my support of a team that only wins one cup per decade at best.

I think the thing that has most devalued the cups for me is the fact that they are almost always won by big clubs. If they were both regularly won by eg: Soton, Stoke, Ipswich, Newcastle, Cardiff, West Ham, even THFC for that matter, then there would be more excitement around them.

The fact that Chelsea, United, Arsenal, City have been dominant enough to win these cups and then act like they don't even count for anything, does create a sense of devaluation.

I also regret the FA Cup Final kick-off being moved from 3pm. And the League Cup Final no longer being live on TV. And a lot more.

Ogmor - you're talking like that matters. I've watched us play good-to-great football for years, it would still be awesome to actually win something and in any case would probably confirm our status as a club in the ascendancy, whereas all the cup wins in the world won't disguise the fact that Arsenal are a club in decline.

Second rate teams have always got to the final - QPR got there from the old second division in the early 80s, Coventry won it in 1986, Sunderland were in the final in 1992, Chelsea were a bottom half team when United thrashed them in the early 90s etc etc. The myth of the FA Cup final being two titans of the English game battling it out has usually been just that, and some of those finals where the best two teams HAVE got there have been unutterably tedious.

The only fans who undervalue a cup win are those who see trophies as their right - United, Chelsea, Arsenal, increasingly City. Maybe Liverpool as well but they're a special case because their desperation for another league title are so palpable.

In that post I say that the cup is not devalued for me, and that it is.

I suppose that this contradictory position is true for me.

The horrible big clubs winning it always, and the widespread sense of devaluation, makes it devalued. But in another part of me it is not devalued and is still a big thrill and something I yearn to win.

I don't think we will win it any time soon.

Palace only reached it once in that period: 1990.

Coventry was 1987, sadly. Perhaps DC is too mercifully young to recall clearly that terrible day.

I had frankly forgotten Portsmouth winning it, 2008 vs Cardiff.

the build up is the good bit, the vorfreude. the final victory is the icing that depends upon the longer term baking of the cake, which involoves a lot of second string PL players.

the 'romance' of the FA cup is in part the luck, the temporary reprieve from the unforgiving, competitive league & the consistent skillful play required to thrive in it, and there's a suspicion that it ties in w/ the "why can't things just be shit like they used to" brexit boy sentimentality that is so present in football. the deep yearning to hoof, aimlessly but with total authenticity.

winning is the moment to enjoy everyone else's losing. my fav memory of the last spurs league cup win was teemu tainio trolling furious chelsea players wasting time on a throw-in.

Would trace decline in prestige to that 93-99 run where it just became something that was or wasn't part of a double in that strange period where English clubs were awful in Europe so domestic cups were amplified in importance.

Recent history shows that it is a competition that the three or four big clubs win regardless of a very odd hiccup.

Not just recent history.

Since Wimbledon won it in 1988 it's only gone outside of the current Prem Top 6 on three occasions.

Which suggests they do take it seriously then. I think FA forced Man Utd to miss the FA Cup that year? I'm not sure how much force was needed though.

I think Darraghmac is right - the 'devaluation' probably does go back to the 1990s just as he says.

Which suggests they do take it seriously then.

Not sure. They all tend to field weakened sides until the latter stages. I guess then that there's usually one or two of them left in and so when they field stronger sides for the semis and final they ultimately prevail.

The list of semi-finalists is actually quite interesting (and a lot more diverse, last year aside). What the hell went on in 2008?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FA_Cup_semi-finals#2000s

Though I doubt any of the ~top six clubs~ or their respective fams would be happy wiht 3 out of 4 FA's yet not placing for CL.

I think I would, fwiw

Yes, if THFC had won 3 FA Cups in 4 or 5 years then I would think of it as one of the most glorious periods of success in the club's history.

It probably is that anyway.

I think FA forced Man Utd to miss the FA Cup that year?

More or less. The FA said they had to go to that stupid tournament in Brazil in January as they thought this would help England's bid to host the 2006 World Cup (which it didn't, at all). Normally that would have meant they would have missed the third round, but their tie could probably have been postponed until they got back. But for some reason (that I can't remember) the third round was held in December that season, so it was actually the fourth round that they would have missed. That meant it wasn't possible to give them a bye (for a round that they may or may not have got through to) and nobody liked the idea of giving them a bye for the third round and the fourth round.

Would trace decline in prestige to that 93-99 run where it just became something that was or wasn't part of a double in that strange period where English clubs were awful in Europe so domestic cups were amplified in importance.

I'd partly agree with the first bit: United 94, United 96, Arsenal 98, United 99 (treble) - so there were a clutch of seasons were the winners wouldn't have seen it as the most important achievement of their season.

The main reason is money, though.

I wouldn't swap three FA cups for three fourth places

Top 4 cl qualification really has become three cup spots behind the league winners and that's probably the single biggest factor

gotta go hard for the chance to field a second xi vs leverkusen

As opposed to vs rushden?

Obviously.

:)

We can fucking beat Leverkusen for a start

I was going to ask if Rushden & Diamonds are still going but it seems they aren't.

has deems from lofty tower conflated rushden and rochdale? j'accuse

No he hasn't it were a placeholder club for all such

that doesn't exist any more ;)

I lie: a phoenix has arisen

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Rushden_%26_Diamonds

That's a good placeholder then int it

http://cdn.pastemagazine.com/www/blogs/lists/HOMERSIMPSON-GIGS-9.jpg

Too easy.

that is murder

Both goals have been great - but yes, way too easy.

and hector bellerin is the victim

xp Oh, they were beauties, def agreed. But Arse offer nothing.

Oof

This could get realllly ugly

absolute fucking murder

aye

Sane's been the key to all three goals, just gliding through them.

I reckon it could be 6-0 here. Citt too good in the final third without even putting the pedal down

Did a lot of ppl already leave? Stadium is half empty on the long sides.