It's almost as if calling guns like the AR an assault weapon highlights the difference between it and other semi-automatics. It exists only to kill in large numbers, quickly.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:37 (six years ago) link
xp true, but I'm cool with just banning "smaller" semi-autos as well, so I think we're better off sticking with "ban all semi-automatic weapons"
also, you're kind of wrong - the VA Tech shooting had very high casualties and was done w/handguns.
― sleeve, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:38 (six years ago) link
(see the clip of Rubio accidentally getting a ton of applause for suggesting that very thing)
can y'all please, at least, say "semi-automatic" instead of "assault"? it's not merely a semantic difference - "assault" is meaningless, "semi-automatic" is not.
no
― Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:38 (six years ago) link
it's an important legal distinction, but plz continue to be willfully ignorant so you can make rhetorical points
― sleeve, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:40 (six years ago) link
I'm on the "semi-automatic" side -- for one thing, banning semi-automatics would apply to a lot more guns than "assault rifles" does. Also it accurately describes the function (shooting lots of bullets fast) rather than getting into semantics.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:40 (six years ago) link
thank you
― sleeve, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:41 (six years ago) link
rhetorical points can be extremely powerful
― Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:41 (six years ago) link
assault weapons make people think of those scary-looking weapons, when tbh yeah the Virginia Tech thing showed those weapons are not the only ones that should be targeted (sorry.)
― omar little, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:41 (six years ago) link
I don't personally give a shit about this; that said, "assault weapons ban" is the popular term for a piece of U.S. legislation in place 1994-2004.
I've seen "assault-style weapon" a bunch lately. Which is adequate, if not perfect, because choosing the AR for your school-massacre needs is partly a style choice.
If looking badass is part of the appeal, maybe we should require them to be pink and sparkly and covered with faux-fur accents.
― oklahomie don't play that (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:44 (six years ago) link
tend to fall on the "semi-auto" side, too, for the reasons tipsy outlined --- it actually encompasses more guns, and provides an easier delimiter. iirc wasn't leaning on cosmetic differences (eg pistol grips) how a lot of these loopholes were created in the first place? "ban all semi-automatic guns" is a stronger, bolder political statement than "age limits on assault rifles" imo
― gbx, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:45 (six years ago) link
^^^ yes
my issue here is that "assault weapon" (or even "assault-style") is a meaningless term that cannot be translated into legalese, and clear legal language will be needed going forward
and like omar says, really what we want here is a total semi-automatic ban (which is even more comprehensive)
I'd think all of you would be on board with this, honestly
― sleeve, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:49 (six years ago) link
"assault weapon" is a wonderfully succinct, evocative phrase that appeals to emotion and will connect with non-gun-owners (aka about 57 percent of the population). if you want to make that synonymous with "semi-automatic weapons" I don't see a problem. acts and laws get imprecise/"umbrella" names all the time, no?
― Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:51 (six years ago) link
the whole reason these cracks in the NRA facade are finally showing up is because of emotion. exploit it ruthlessly any way you can imo
― Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:53 (six years ago) link
a meaningless term that cannot be translated into legalese
the problem here is that legalese doesn't translate well into political action, which is the first hurdle to cross. putting the legalese ahead of the emotional appeal is, uh, jumping the gun (plz forget I said that).
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:53 (six years ago) link
this defeatist fucking bullshit pisses me off:
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/27/politics/gun-bill-analysis/index.html
The headline is throwing in the towel just as the new anti-gun movement begins. Cillizza is an idiot.
― omar little, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:55 (six years ago) link
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:40 PM (sixteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― sleeve, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:41 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― Simon H., Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:41 PM (fifteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
― omar little, Tuesday, February 27, 2018 1:41 PM
All these points are correct, which reminds me that every shooting is different. The NRA is good at explaining the limits of action based on the most recent episode of violence. That's why I'm cool with repealing the Second Amendment.
― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 18:59 (six years ago) link
Cillizza is an idiot.
evergreen sentiment
― Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 19:01 (six years ago) link
Heard a new descriptor on NPR the other day -- "multi-casualty firearms."
― WilliamC, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 19:03 (six years ago) link
so.....firearms
― Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 19:04 (six years ago) link
[me, a goddamned genius expert]: actually, "assault weapon" is a fake term invented by liberal media[you, a poster who can Google]: pic.twitter.com/0sIjBCFcTB— Patrick Blanchfield (@PatBlanchfield) February 27, 2018
[me, doubling down on being a fucking epic galaxy brain]: I meant "assault rifle," it's an invention of the gun grabbers[you]: pic.twitter.com/IoWzDZ15Gl— Patrick Blanchfield (@PatBlanchfield) February 27, 2018
― Millennial Whoop, wanna fight about it? (Phil D.), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 19:05 (six years ago) link
putting the legalese ahead of the emotional appeal is, uh, jumping the gun (plz forget I said that).
this is more or less what I'm trying to get at. go with the terms that resonate with people, adapt as required later
― Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 19:06 (six years ago) link
Obamacare isn't technically called that but people are plenty energized for and against
― oklahomie don't play that (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 19:20 (six years ago) link
I regret this derail, should have taken it to the Gun Control thread, going there now
― sleeve, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 19:30 (six years ago) link
I'm likely to refer colloquially to a thing in a casual conversation that I'd refer to with more rigor and specificity in a more formal context. As such, I'm cool with continuing to call all these shits 'murder machines' itt.
― Here Comes The Brain Event (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 19:34 (six years ago) link
In casual conversation I don’t think it matters. But in talking about policy, starting with “semi-automatic” leapfrogs the insipid “there’s no such thing as an assault weapon” nonsense.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 20:19 (six years ago) link
eh, if someone throws up some “there’s no such thing as an assault weapon” nonsense, then "semi-automatic" is just fine to be your second move.
― A is for (Aimless), Tuesday, 27 February 2018 20:33 (six years ago) link
Your next step after that is to play "Closing Time" by Semisonic. That'll shut them them DOWN.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 27 February 2018 20:35 (six years ago) link
I am desperate for a pollster to ask Republicans if they think Parkland was a false flag and the teens are crisis actors. I would bet so much that it’s over 50%.— Virgil Texas (@virgiltexas) February 27, 2018
― Simon H., Tuesday, 27 February 2018 23:09 (six years ago) link
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, February 27, 2018 3:19 PM (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
agree on both points
― k3vin k., Wednesday, 28 February 2018 00:50 (six years ago) link
There are countries with high gun ownership, including of semi-automatic rifles, and low gun violence. This is a solved problem. Gun ownership licensing, requiring a witness to character and thorough background check.
American gun owners of Reddit who have moved to a country with strict gun-control, what has this been like, what are the differences?
American living in New Zealand. For the most part it’s no different, with some very notable exceptions.When you get a firearms license here it actually means something. It’s good for 10 years and specifies what class of firearm you can own. The license requires a background check and interview. Someone came to my home, asked me, my partner and a witness questions about my character. Any answer they don’t like, likely results in no issue of license. For example, if I’m violent, use drugs, etc. But that’s it. From application to issues it took 2 months. After that I can own / use anything in my class. And I don’t pay DROS fees or wait every time I want to buy a gun.Shooting here is pretty similar to North America. Ranges, public land etc. Hunting is big, so is competitive shooting.So called ‘assault rifles’ are legal here just like the US. You can get a semi automatic AR here and as long as it has a legal magazine it’s considered a basic class A. You can also get silencers here. In some respects I feel it’s more liberal than the US.
When you get a firearms license here it actually means something. It’s good for 10 years and specifies what class of firearm you can own. The license requires a background check and interview. Someone came to my home, asked me, my partner and a witness questions about my character. Any answer they don’t like, likely results in no issue of license. For example, if I’m violent, use drugs, etc. But that’s it. From application to issues it took 2 months. After that I can own / use anything in my class. And I don’t pay DROS fees or wait every time I want to buy a gun.
Shooting here is pretty similar to North America. Ranges, public land etc. Hunting is big, so is competitive shooting.
So called ‘assault rifles’ are legal here just like the US. You can get a semi automatic AR here and as long as it has a legal magazine it’s considered a basic class A. You can also get silencers here. In some respects I feel it’s more liberal than the US.
― It's because I'm human, isn't it?! (Sanpaku), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 03:17 (six years ago) link
when ur totally not getting owned by teens pic.twitter.com/CBJnbUzDt4— Adam H. Johnson (@adamjohnsonNYC) February 28, 2018
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:49 (six years ago) link
lol @ li'l marco trying to zing both Trump and angry shooting victims there
― omar little, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 17:52 (six years ago) link
BREAKING: Police in Georgia respond to shots fired at high school and have taken a teacher into custody; no children hurt.— The Associated Press (@AP) February 28, 2018
arm the students
― mookieproof, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:02 (six years ago) link
Lunch lady with a rifle could’ve stopped this
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:05 (six years ago) link
arm the students, arm the teachers, let God sort em out
― omar little, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:09 (six years ago) link
arm god
― Le Bateau Ivre, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:10 (six years ago) link
Wish Christians would stop fucking saying “Jude[ o ]-Christian”, don’t use us as a fig leaf for your bigotry
― direct to consumer online mattress brand (silby), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:12 (six years ago) link
abolish schools
― F# A# (∞), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:13 (six years ago) link
Abra-Goin' Ham-ic religions
― WilliamC, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 18:14 (six years ago) link
think this teacher didn't understand how Trump's bonus was intended to work
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:18 (six years ago) link
countdown to cries of "crisis actor paid by liberals to weaken the NRA's position" in 5, 4, 3, 2....
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:22 (six years ago) link
already seen FALSE FLAG tweets about it
― Colonel Poo, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:24 (six years ago) link
Lol there’s no countdown that was the immediate reaction
― frogbs, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:25 (six years ago) link
I don't know if we are here because of something we did, or if whoever is in charge of everything just hates us for no reason. maybe there's something even worse coming after this, i dont know. but we are all definitely in hell right now. this is hell. pic.twitter.com/feBJlFmYgl— jesse farrar (@BronzeHammer) February 28, 2018
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 19:27 (six years ago) link
http://www.thinkingcinema.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Reservoir-Dogs-Standoff.png
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 20:04 (six years ago) link
an absolute mortal lock that this shooting is deemed a false flag by progressives intending to undermine the argument that we should arm teachers
― gbx, Wednesday, 28 February 2018 21:00 (six years ago) link
checking in on the deranged
Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles and some wearing bullet crowns, participated in a commitment ceremony today at World Peace and Unification Sanctuary, in Newfoundland, Pa. The event led a nearby school to cancel classes for the day. Photos @jacquelinelarma pic.twitter.com/GXzrZeK41z— AP Images (@AP_Images) February 28, 2018
― ice cream social justice (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 21:18 (six years ago) link
are those...military personnel?
― i remember the corned beef of my childhood (Karl Malone), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 21:19 (six years ago) link
we are so fucked
― It's not delivery, it's Adorno! (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 28 February 2018 21:20 (six years ago) link