Oscars 2018

Yeah that was what I found refreshing tbh - it drops you into this world where people are capturing aquamen and experimenting on them and no one's being particularly secretive about it (the fucking cleaners get to gawp at all the goings on ffs). It just is, no one seems suprised by it.

Deux-guy

Exactly Trayce

If you were fighting the universe made very clear in the first ten minutes then you weren't going to enjoy it and it was a huge plus that GDT didn't give two shits for you if you weren't all-in

Which I have to confess is something I do sometimes fight! I'm terrible with suspension of disbelief.

It's on the director imo. if they can't bring you with them then fuckem, shit movie

it's a fairytale, not sci-fi.

Curiously, despite loving The Shape of Water (thought not nearly as much as Phantom Thread or Call Me By Your Name) I'm not sure I disagree with cryptosicko's prediction. But I think it's a very widespread thing among acclaimed films. Often, no one wants to go on about them much at least another 20 years.

clemenza otm despite not having seen the movie

I loved The Shape of Water but it will not be remembered in 5 years. Get Out will go down as the movie of the decade.

at least in America. Nothing comes close

(xxpost)

Just to be sure people are being properly cited: 'twas clemenza who predicts the film will eventually disappear into the weird limbo that awaits many of the less memorable BP winners. I don't necessarily disagree: while the winner 20 years ago was Titanic (perhaps the last "classic" BP winner, in that it was a massive and beloved hit that also happened to fit the Oscar template as perfectly as Ben Hur or The Sound of Music), the two winners on either side of that one were The English Patient and Shakespeare in Love, and when was the last time you watched either of those? Whether The Shape of Water fits that template, I'm not sure, but I think what is being argued is that it resembles none of the other categories that BP winners fall into: the critical hit that forces its way to the top of the heap (No Country For Old Men, Moonlight) and the "LOL @ the Academy" likes of Crash or American Beauty.

Oops for mixing you two up, sorry!

Basically, I think winning best picture just kind of does a good job of killing the critical interest in a film for a good while, at least when it's critically acclaimed in the first place. No Country for Old Men has maybe been the least affected by this of recent winners because critics (and amateur critics like me) see it in the line of auteuristic work, but even that I'd say would be more talked about on ILX if it hadn't won. Del Toro is a sort of auteur, but too big budget these days to escape it. So yes, wake me up to talking about The Shape of Water again in 2037 or so.

add to the anodyne feel good BP winners - The King's Speech, Argo, The Artist

Ha. I think The Artist remains one of the best two or three best winners of my lifetime but your lifetime may vary.

Agree that the artist was super

Get Out will go down as the movie of the decade.

― flappy bird, Tuesday, 6 March 2018 05:59 (three hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You fuckin clown super troopers 2 is imminent time makes fools of us all

you know what 'people' are going to remember? the Kardashians

why should millions of people go to a movie theater when millions of people won't shut up?

Pitchfork thinks Sufjan should have played for longer.

Seriously, though, they make a solid case for the Academy's notorious conservatism when it comes to music, at least in the Original Score category (and the failure to recognize the art of "music supervision"), but when it comes to the songs, I cannot help but cry "rockism" here: there is no acknowledgement of the continued popularity of show tunes (ask any theatre geek you know what the highlight of Sunday's broadcast was, and they'll tell you it was the Greatest Showman performance), not to mention that they have conveniently forgot about "Lose Yourself" and "It's Hard Out Here For a Pimp." Also, while I can't say I was a fan of any of this year's nominated songs, it is hard to argue that it wasn't a diverse batch: an indie-folk love song, a trad(ish) Mexican folk ballad, a Broadway-style showstopper, *two* gospel numbers.

Tbh, 10 years later I'm not sure how much Pan's has even stuck around, and that's the much better film. Held up well, though, better than I imagine Shape will. Shape was fine but not sure I need to watch it again. More interested in watching Crimson Peak again, or even Pacific Rim (though I don't know how well that will do on TV).

Per genre: Shape is pretty much Gothic horror with cute/comedic elements (not unlike Hellboy!) but the contemporary/social commentary draws it out of its genre box.

Hmm, Pan's Labyrinth probably counts as hybrid Gothic horror with social commentary, too (a la its clear forebear Spirit of the Beehive). There are fantastical elements to both, but they're not really fantasy, like Lord of the Rings is.

the Greatest Showman performance demonstrated why "musical theatre" as it now exists should be taken behind the barn and put down

not to mention a diversity anthem from a PT Barnum biomusical, the raw chutzpah

The year the Barnum & Bailey Circus ended, no less.

lowest TV ratings ever, much to Yam's delight

you know what 'people' are going to remember? the Kardashians

why should millions of people go to a movie theater when millions of people won't shut up?

It's Spielberg character being booked on a train levels of brilliant u mean

Booed!

Good approach.

Michael Shannon watching the film he starred in, "Shape of Water", win best picture while sitting in the Old Town Ale House. No sound on the TV, just sub-titles. Of course the juke box was rocking, and the beer flowing. Where else would you want to spend Oscar night? pic.twitter.com/WAC6uc6guZ

— Bruce Elliott (@GeriatricGenius) March 6, 2018

then he cut open his thumb and stitched it back together

Gotta live the moment.

the only right way to watch the oscars, unless you're compelled to attend

The more I thought about it--a couple of other people basically made this point already--I don't why I'm picking on The Shape of Water. Very few Best Picture winners outlast their moment for very long; I'd be surprised if there's been more than a dozen. Everyone has individual favourites, but films like On the Waterfront, The Apartment, The Godfather, or No Country for Old Men are few and far between.

Totally disagree, there are so many more than that:

The French Connection
The Godfather
The Godfather Part II
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Rocky
Annie Hall
The Deer Hunter
Gandhi
Terms of Endearment
Platoon
The Last Emperor
Rain Main
The Silence of the Lambs
Unforgiven
Schindler's List
Forrest Gump (unfortunately)
Braveheart
Titanic
American Beauty
The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King
The Departed
The Hurt Locker

I realize there are a lot of gaps in the 80s & 90s and a streak in the 70s, but the 00s and the 10s so far have had mostly anodyne BP winners. Moonlight, NCFOM, (and maybe Spotlight & Birdman) are the exceptions.

a lot of those films are bobbins

Did movies not exist before 1970s, flappy?

I dunno, flappy, I personally can't remember the last time I heard anyone bring up Rain Main.

Platoon
The Last Emperor
Rain Man

Gandhi strikes me as an extremely typical here-and-forgotten BP winner. Does anyone really like it better than E.T. or Tootsie?

There are certainly more than a dozen: It Happened One Night, Gone With the Wind, Casablanca, Best Years of Our Lives, Bridge Over The River Kwai, All About Eve, Lawrence of Arabia, Sound of Music, all resonate, and that's before you get to any of the non-questionable examples before flappy bird's list

*on flappy bird's list, not "before flappy bird's list"

Did movies not exist before 1970s, flappy?

― morning wood truancy (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Tuesday, March 6, 2018 5:44 PM (four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha I thought it would be annoying if I went back further! of course there are a ton, including all the ones voodoo chili listed.

Platoon
The Last Emperor
Rain Man

???
― Alba

Platoon always rated as one of Oliver Stone's best, he's still a major director for better or worse. Also on the shortlist for Vietnam movies alongside Apocalypse Now and The Deer Hunter. The Last Emperor could be just me, I remember in 2007 it had a huge theatrical re-release and tho I didn't go, I remember walking past packed screenings and a lot of people seem excited. Rain Man became a colloquialism.

Gandhi strikes me as an extremely typical here-and-forgotten BP winner. Does anyone really like it better than E.T. or Tootsie?

― Dangleballs and the Ballerina (cryptosicko)

well that's not the question, though i agree. Gandhi is remembered & referenced whenever Ben Kingsley comes up. Again the question isn't "are they remembered as great movies?" it's just "are they remembered?" And there are plenty of BP winners that have been completely forgotten in the culture at large and by people that love movies.

Chariots of Fire the ultimate here then gone winner. Who watches that one? I like The Last Emperor, looks gorgeous.

gandhi got some kind of afterlife as something to show 7th graders for a week of social studies class. at least that's how I encountered it in the mid-90s.

strongo's polls might be a useful reference here. was there ever one for the 70s, or just the year-by-year BP threads?

WORST of the Best Picture Oscar Noms (Only The '80s Edition)

WORST of the Best Picture Oscar Noms (Only the '90s Edition)

WORST of the Best Picture Oscar Noms (Only the '00s Edition ... except 2009)

i kinda like the last emperor

(also a social studies watch tho)

I'd say these ones--some combination of critical acclaim (not just then, but now--a high ranking on the TSPDT list, say), influence, how likely someone younger is to seek them out.

Inarguable: On the Waterfront, The Apartment, Lawrence of Arabia, The Godfather (I & II), Annie Hall, Schindler's List (not for me, but objectively), No Country for Old Men.

I'd add a couple of broadly popular films to the inarguable list: Gone with the Wind and Casablanca.

Arguable, but maybe: All Quiet on the Western Front, It Happened One Night, Rebecca, How Green Was My Valley, The Best Years of Our Lives, All About Eve, From Here to Eternity, The Bridge on the River Kwai, Midnight Cowboy, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, The Silence of the Lambs.

You can change some of those according to individual taste. In any event, I'd say a maximum of 20.

I'm not saying that aren't other good, even great films that have won. Just trying to pin down something that probably can't be pinned down.

Also, it's easier to include older films on the "maybe" list--enough time has passed, and they're still written about and referenced and screened often enough, that there's some evidence there. I'm sure a couple of winners from the past 20 years will seem more vital in 2050 than they do now for whatever reason. As Kent Brockman says, only time will tell.

i'm not really sure how to measure whether something's "remembered" or not. i would assume that most literate adults have at least heard the titles of most of the movies in flappy bird's and clemenza's lists, and obv every BP winner ever will live on forever as a trivia question, at least, but i would guess most ppl who weren't alive or were too young to see these films when they came out haven't seen them.

I know--one of these constructs where the more I post, the more I paint myself into a corner...you can't measure it. But the idea of that 20-year-old who hasn't seen most of these films: which ones are he/she most likely to seek out? If you could draw up that list, that's kind of what I'm trying to get at. So maybe "remembered" isn't the best word. That person will get to The Godfather and Casablanca very quickly, based on what they've read or heard. He'll probably never get around to Cimarron.

The number is at least twenty imo and a lot more like fifty