Dynasty, s3: Canadian Politics 2018

love to live in H E L L W O R L D

If Mulroney had won, the thread title would have become even more apt.

why would ford winning make your voting decision tricky?

If Mulroney had won--which I guess was never realistic--I would have just voted NDP (somewhat reluctantly; I pretty much always vote Liberal) and not given a second thought to strategic voting or whatever; she seems like a fairly mushy centrist. With Ford, though--who I truly despise--I'll wait and see what's what come election week. Wynne is so unpopular, that it probably won't make a difference, I'll still vote NDP. But if somehow she rallied and it were close between Wynne and Ford, I'd have to consider voting Wynne--which, as a teacher, I swore I'd never do again after she screwed us a couple of years ago.

I left the house at 4:30 for a movie downtown, just got back. Glad I didn't miss anything...what a joke.

Ugh.

I absolutely do not get why a party poised to win an election--even after the Patrick Brown circus--would hand things over to a guy as volatile and divisive as Ford, never mind the baggage he brings in because of his brother. I know--Trump. He won. My mystification means nothing with the electorate today.

I may again see if there's a close riding here and volunteer with some NDP candidate (which worked out so well last time...).

god this would be a FANTASTIC time for the provincial NDP to not be a milquetoast non-entity

Something I don't understand: how do you conduct a multi-ballot nomination in advance? Were voters filling out cards that had all the possible scenarios for a second, third, and fourth ballot?

I love that the PCs were finally kicked out so that the ballroom could be prepped for a (not gay, sadly) wedding.

darkest timeline strikes again. the PC fuckfaces have the next one in the bag, they could have nominated that serial killer dude and it would not have made much of a difference. my only hope about four beers in is that they are held to a minority and eventually eat doug ford alive

clem is your riding now NDP or Lib? I think volunteering is always a good idea. And if I was in Ontario I think I would have to vote strategically, even tho it could be confusing who actually has the best chance in a given riding. God bless FPTP

I think the PC used a ranked ballot that couldn't be changed after each round of voting. Apparently lots of the Mulroney voters didn't bother listing a second choice, which could have swung it away from Ford.

I'm Etobicoke Centre, currently Liberal (and Liberal since 2003). Because of my animus towards Wynne mentioned above, I wouldn't want to volunteer for a Liberal candidate. If I do volunteer, then, I'll go out of riding.

(xpost) That makes sense. It really doesn't acknowledge the back-and-forth of an open convention, though--for the reason you mention, and also just the emotion of the moment. I'd like to think enough people would have been scared off by the reality of we're-about-to-elect-Ford to give them pause on that third ballot.

even besides the typo ("overcrwoding") this is a pretty lackluster statement out of the gate

https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/cut-and-privatize-ford-stark-contrast-andrea-horwath

Was hoping for a messy, weeks-long protraction, but not to be.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/doug-ford-christine-elliott-meeting-1.4571798

Brutal!: https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2018/03/10/brutal-canada-has-outsmarted-our-politicians-for-decades-trump-says.html

Lol: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-trump-boasts-that-he-made-up-trade-facts-in-meeting-with-trudeau/

That Trump, what a card!

Howarth's NDP looking to roll out a pleasingly progressive set of priorities. Wynne's response makes pretty clear the Libs don't consider them much of a threat.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/03/17/ndp-promises-to-give-ontario-full-dental-coverage-repay-student-loans.html

Indeed, she's gonna have to do a hell of a job selling ON voters on the NDP as a viable option.

https://www.thestar.com/news/queenspark/2018/03/17/progressive-conservatives-driving-towards-majority-government-poll-suggests.html

I don't know if it's a bad habit that's exacerbated by living in Quebec or if it's simply because I'm fed up with all things political of late, but I can't bring myself to truly care for what goes on in other provinces, except maybe Ontario every now and then (et encore…). Alberta, for instance, feels like a different country to me, no doubt for misguided reasons. Is this indifference as prevalent in the rest of Canada?

I think so, yes. My impression is that we all experience pretty extreme political alienation from each other. Whereas in the States, there's a sense of triumph among progressives when progressives triumph in local elections even in distant states. (If I'm wrong on either point, lurkers, please feel free to disabuse me of either statement.)

I get what you're saying, but the alienation strikes me as more deliberate here, i.e. 'we have in nothing in common with the ROC so let them deal with their own problems'. Of course, federal issues are much harder to ignore, even in separatist circles.

To be fair, we haven't had anything as spectacular as, say, Roy Moore vs. Doug Jones (let's keep it that way).

We also have yet to face a true, national economic crisis (for quite a while, anyway). when that inevitably happens we'll prove just how reactionary we can get.

If ever there was a leader born to be brought down by sudden, roiling instability their approach is utterly insufficient in the face of, it's JT.

I’ve been in Canada for nearly four years and one major difference from the US is not having a two-party system really changes the flavor and intensity of politics.

Simon, I'm of a pessimistic nature, to say the least, but I can't help but see such statements as wishful eschatological thinking on the part of the left no less than the right, both of which seek the 'I told you so!' moment a crisis would inevitably impel. At the back of my mind, I am always comparing Canada's situation with that of my country of origin (Romania). We could be doing far better, no question about it, but we could also be doing, far, far worse. Although JT is mediocre in many ways, I'll take Canadian mediocrity over its equivalents almost everywhere else in the world, especially right now.

(With sea level as a baseline, the Mariana Trench's abyssal depth trumps Mt. Everest's height.)

I didn't mean my statement to come off as optimistic!

All I'm saying is, our relatively comfy political spectrum hasn't faced a truly dire test in quite a while.

For sure. And I've no doubt we'll see some truly ugly racist/sexist/homophobic, etc. bullshit come out of the woodwork when that happens (and it will, as no country is ever completely exempt). Harper and his cronies flirted with it a fair amount when they were in power and we'll probably get a foretaste of its return here in Quebec once the CAQ gets elected (they're outperforming everyone in the polls).

The feud between BC NDP and Alberta NDP is a testament to how different politics is done in every province, despite even having the same party name

I think so, yes. My impression is that we all experience pretty extreme political alienation from each other. Whereas in the States, there's a sense of triumph among progressives when progressives triumph in local elections even in distant states. (If I'm wrong on either point, lurkers, please feel free to disabuse me of either statement.)

Interesting. I usually feel the opposite: that the differences between states in the US are greater than the differences between (especially English) Canadian provinces. I don't really get much of an impression that people in Massachusetts give two shits about what happens at the state level in, say, the Dakotas or Tennessee, or could even name the Governor of Missouri. (I can't.) NB that Roy Moore vs Doug Jones was a contest for a federal Senate seat, not a state-level race. I do think that even moderately politically engaged people in Ontario would pay attention to a scandal-ridden federal byelection in Nova Scotia, or a controversy involving a PEI Senator (as we saw with Duffy).

(Compare state-level Republicans in MA with state-level Republicans in Kansas or Wisconsin, btw!)

Putting Hydro One back under public ownership is the most exciting thing in that ONDP list for me. The Left Chapter pokes some holes in the pharmacare and dental care proposals, while pointing out (correctly imo) that "[t]he Liberals have delivered some significant reforms that impact on the lives of people in very direct ways"; I'm not convinced I trust the ONDP to do that much better.

yeah the provincial Libs have outflanked them for a while and I don't think Howarth has what it takes to bring skeptical voters onside

i pay attention and have (sometimes poorly informed) rooting interests in politics in other provinces. I was really excited when Notley won, and still think she is by far a better Premier for Alberta than the alternatives, even though she has threatened to cut off my oil. I was happy about the Fords losing the mayoralty and Pauline Marois losing in Quebec

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/03/15/opinion/truth-behind-story-engulfing-canadas-sikh-politicians

In a properly functioning parliamentary democracy, it would probably be considered an abuse of power to use a Throne Speech to launch an election campaign. That's definitely the kind of complaint we heard a lot of from L/liberals during the Harper era. #ThroneSpeech #ONpoli

— Luke Savage (@LukewSavage) March 20, 2018

I'll have more to say on the Sikh terrorism issue soon but I'll just note as an aside that Jaspreet Singh's Helium is a really good (Canadian) novel that deals with the 1984 anti-Sikh pogroms, if anyone doesn't know it.

yeah I was curious what you thought of the piece, it improved my extremely lacking knowledge of the history by about 1000%

In short, a lot of it seems correct (although I can't say for sure about all of it). However, I also wouldn't really be on board with federal party leaders wearing Che Guevara T-shirts or speaking at events in front of pictures of, idk, Eldridge Cleaver or the Baader-Meinhof gang or someone? If a British politician were to speak at a pro-Quebec separatism rally where people were big-upping the FLQ, I would consider that a diplomatic issue, at the least, and it would be pretty insensitive to James Cross's family. I never thought that this was a matter of Canadian politicians getting involved with actual current terrorist violence and was surprised that anyone saw it that way.

I'd let it slide If Niki Ashton wore a Che Guevara T-shirt as a student, though, because that would be adorable.

I learned a lot from the article too, btw, so thanks!

so the NDP and Lib proposals for Ontario seem awfully similar huh? feel like the NDP got outflanked again.

I've never voted Liberal federally, and might have hated Chrétien/Martin more than I ever hated Harper, but I've thought for a while that the Ontario Liberals are ideologically closer to the NDP in other provinces. I definitely don't think of them as equivalent to the BC or Quebec Liberals. I'm usually not a proponent of the idea but I'm considering that it might be time for Ontario Liberals and NDP to come up with a way to work together in this election?

I've thought for a while that the Ontario Liberals are ideologically closer to the NDP in other provinces.

I mean, it's a an idle thought I have at times and they can sometimes be all over the map. Their record with civil liberties regarding the G20 protests made me want to swear them off for good and I'll look at the Green (my 2014 vote) and NDP platforms. Still, they've tried some legitimately bold and progressive things with some consistency over the last 15 years.

this seems cool, meanwhile

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-saudi-arms-deal-1.4579772

yeah, could you even imagine what it would be like if we had a PM who associated with violent extremists