Democratic (Party) Direction

Here are the states with the largest percentages of German-Americans and the degree to which their margin shifted towards Obama in '08 (from '04) and towards Trump in '16 (from '08) [compare to national margin shifts of +10 and +5, respectively]:

North Dakota (47%): +19, +27 (#4 Trump state)
South Dakota (45%): +13, +21 (#7 Trump state)
Wisconsin (44%): +14, +13 (Trump flipped, Kerry and Gore had both nearly lost)
Nebraska (43%): +12, +10 (#11 Trump state)
Minnesota (38%): +7, +9 (2nd highest college-educated population percentage among these states, highest turnout of any state in both '08 and '16, 2nd-closest Clinton state)
Iowa (36%): +9 (Obama flipped), +18 (Trump flipped)
Montana (27%): +18, +20
Ohio (27%): +6 (Obama flipped), +14 (Trump flipped) (3rd largest of these states)
Wyoming (26%): +8, +14 (#1 Trump state)
Kansas (26%): +10, +5 (3rd lowest non-hispanic-white and 5th highest college-educated population percentages among these states; )
Pennsylvania (25%): +8, +11 (Trump flipped; largest of these states)
Missouri (24%): +7 (Obama almost flipped), +18
Indiana (23%): +22 (Obama flipped), +20
Colorado (22%): +14 (Obama flipped), +4 (highest college-educated and 2nd lowest non-hispanic-white population percentages among these states; hispanic population grew 40% 2000-2010; 4th-highest turnout in both '08 and '16)
Oregon (21%): +12, +5 (4th lowest non-hispanic-white and 6th highest college-educated population percentages among these states; hispanic population grew 65% 2000-2010)
Michigan (20%): +13, +16 (Trump flipped) (4th largest and 5th lowest non-hispanic-white population percentage of these states)
Illinois (20%): +15, +8 (2nd largest, lowest non-hispanic-white and 4th highest college-educated population percentages among these states)
Idaho (19%): +13, +7 (#10 Trump state)

first rule of holes: stop digging

― A is for (Aimless), Friday, March 16, 2018 3:50 AM (eleven hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Agreed

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/040/257/timecubeflierimg.gif?1318992465

hey, they got al capone on tax evasion - if moo v goes down for wasting everybody's time with walls of text that give everybody hand cramps from scrolling, i'm fine with that.

If 'German' is the 'primary ancestry' of most counties in the US, that list doesn't necessarily prove much.

bean bag, everything you are talking about can be explained by whiteness and not some 19th century fixation on many generations-removed european nation of origin, distinctions muddied each subsequent generation by the crossfuckin of various "ethnic" whites.

signed, an italian-american on my maternal grandmother's side

Was it over when the German-Americans bombed ILX?

https://imgur.com/a/NMxZW

I think the idea that Obama's popularity had something to do with his German ancestry to be a v fascinating and provocative assertion but I think I need to see exactly how that played out. Do you think there's something about Obama's temperament that he inherited from his mother that resonated w/ German voters? Or do you think they *knew* he had German ancestry and they liked that? (That seems v unlikely to me considering the ignorance of the general populace about far less esoteric information.) What are the dynamics within which this ethnic affiliation/affinity played out?

his thick, nearly impenetrable german accent obv - amazing he ever got anywhere in politics with that but clearly once he reached the national level it was a winner, just look at those percentages

Why, why are you all taking the bait like this. Just give him his SB, add him to your killfile, and move on

bean bag gives this place some pep, no way do i wanna FP him

Old IL senate codger: “Obama—what is that, Irish?”

“It will be when I run for President”

(from Remnick’s Obama bio)

Your ignorance of Harmonic Cube is demonic

Why ban him? He's entertaining and a change of pace from the manifold Trump impersonations and breathless updates.

the prosecution rests

bean bag, everything you are talking about can be explained by whiteness and not some 19th century fixation on many generations-removed european nation of origin, distinctions muddied each subsequent generation by the crossfuckin of various "ethnic" whites.

signed, an italian-american on my maternal grandmother's side

― NBA YoungBoy named Rocky Raccoon (m bison), Friday, March 16, 2018 3:50 PM (forty-nine seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I intended to do this elsewhere and with more forethought, but since you press the point...

I am not at all surprised that someone who identifies with their Italian-American heritage might be particularly invested in subsuming their and others' European(-plus?) ancestry within the rubric of 'whiteness', the contemporary defense of which I regard as a continuing defense of a racist ideology that goes beyond simple recognition of the vast social impact of racism, past and present, and the system of legal (and illegal) slavery with which it has substantially intersected in America, into an attempt to perpetuate, consciously or otherwise, the (now-threatened, depending in significant part upon the going-forward legal status and racial self-identification of Mexican-Americans) majoritarian status of European peoples, which status in turn acts as an element of what may be termed white privilege or white supremacy. Such status would be complicated significantly in the present moment were Europeans identified by the various particularities of their ancestry rather than their unifying 'race'. Consider in this regard that Italian-Americans are substantially less numerous than (often necessarily undifferentiated) African-Americans, who outweigh them by more than two to one.

While most who insist upon 'whiteness' (at least in a context like this one) are, I presume, good people at least nominally concerned with overcoming white privilege/supremacy, in doing so they are in fact reinforcing their own belonging to that majoritarian group, with whatever present status it confers, in the same define-up-not-down manner that predecessors who may not have been defined as white upon arrival in America (as in the case of Italian-Americans among many other later-19th-century-plus immigrant groups) may have engaged. I would go further and suggest that many of the most loyal Trump supporters, at least outside his rural/small-town base, belong to precisely those groups that are presently or historically most anxious about their degree of 'whiteness'.

Ancestry is history. The impact of racism is history and sociology. Whiteness is ideology.

Just one among many references to which one could advert - https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1206&context=qc_pubs - from which I quote, "the literature produced by Italian/American writers contains the fuel to fire the slogan of whiteness studies coined by Ignatiev and Garvey 'Treason to whiteness is loyalty to humanity.'”

sund4r, bison, mordy otm

3/4 of my grandparents were german-american. this conversation is bonkers. given the size and spread of this 'ethnicity' (and the fact that 18th century "germany" didn't even exist) there is probably not a less self-conscious hyphenated-american group

worth talking about: protestantism and american catholicism, the midwest, political economy of midsize american cities and their hinterlands, or just rurality generally.

mass unconscious recognition of germanness? idk this is verging on phrenology

*19th

Do you think there's something about Obama's temperament that he inherited from his mother that resonated w/ German voters? Or do you think they *knew* he had German ancestry and they liked that? (That seems v unlikely to me considering the ignorance of the general populace about far less esoteric information.) What are the dynamics within which this ethnic affiliation/affinity played out?

― Mordy, Friday, March 16, 2018 4:18 PM (thirty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I don't know by any means that his minor German ancestry played a significant or even any role in his vote, even if there's evidence that could be read to suggest same to one degree or another. Many of the disproportionately-German states and counties that voted for him are also disproportionately located in proximity to the state with which he was best identified, and in which he lived and worked for most of his adult life until becoming President. Do I think that a truly substantial number of voters were aware of his ancestry through their own efforts? No, of course not. Do I think that some were made aware through an unusual degree of attention to his ancestry vis-a-vis his 'white' predecessors? Yes. Do I think that he may have made an effort to highlight his German ancestry in part through his trip to Germany during the campaign? Maybe. Do I think that some white Americans of German ancestry may have perceived him consciously or otherwise as one of 'their people' (however defined), even if they were unaware of his German heritage? Possibly.

worth talking about: protestantism and american catholicism, the midwest, political economy of midsize american cities and their hinterlands, or just rurality generally.

mass unconscious recognition of germanness? idk this is verging on phrenology

― goole, Friday, March 16, 2018 4:56 PM (five minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think that all of those things are worth talking about, and don't entirely deny the verge.

I'm excited about this new direction the democratic party is headed in you guys

Germanness in America I think matters a great deal esp in light of ethnic subsumption in the wake of WW2 and how unidentified Germanness contributed to American culture in a more covert way than gaudier Anglo influences. But, again, to make a claim that Obama's specific German heritage led to repressed ethnic German-Americans voting for him requires I think an extraordinary case. Why would they see him as a fellow German-American as opposed to a black man? Why would they see anyone as a German-American when they don't even really see themselves as German-Americans? The ethnic case is interesting but I feel like just not in this particular dimension where it's being asserted.

tall with a great smile, wife in terrific shape, of course he's a northern european

bill clinton: first black president
barack obama: first german president

Obama was the first Asian-American President

This "accidental racist" writing under a nom de plume for a self-declared "Fake News" site called Trump the first Italian-American President: https://newesfromamerica.com/2016/11/30/donald-trump-americas-first-italian-american-president/

Such status would be complicated significantly in the present moment were Europeans identified by the various particularities of their ancestry rather than their unifying 'race'. ...

While most who insist upon 'whiteness' (at least in a context like this one) are, I presume, good people at least nominally concerned with overcoming white privilege/supremacy, in doing so they are in fact reinforcing their own belonging to that majoritarian group...

it sounds like you would prefer if everyone would self-identify their ethnic status as precisely as possible. which is creepy af, btw. if you don't think that, than i suggest cutting down your posts to about 1/20th of their current size and just stating what you think clearly, rather than shitbombing threads over the course of several years before deploying the cowardly self-interview gambit of "Do I think this? Maybe. But do I also think that? Possibly." as a deflective non-response

it sounds like you would prefer if everyone would self-identify their ethnic status as precisely as possible.

― Karl Malone, Friday, March 16, 2018 5:15 PM (fifty-nine seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This is something I would have (and in fact had already) better developed in the more carefully-considered and broadly-spoken post I intended. My preference is that white people self-identify by ancestry in the alternative to race. This is not by any means a statement that 'racial' identity or effective substitutions for same should not be used to overcome discrimination in education, employment, housing, etc.

And to be more precise: I'm not saying 'go around identifying yourself as Y' (though I find Y fascinating for various reasons, probably in part because I belong to a fairly minoritarian ethnic/religious group that is generally regarded as 'white' but not by many racists, and in larger part because I'm interested in Y's intersection with American regional cultures and their political import). I'm saying 'to the extent you feel the need to identify yourself as X, identify yourself as Y instead (except to the degree to which you are being asked to identify as X for purposes of confronting discrimination)'.

Moo V Will SatisFPy You

My preference is that white people self-identify by ancestry in the alternative to race.

The problem is not racial self-identification so much as it is one's identification of others as being "others" according to racial categories. Few US whites go around feeling white, unless they live in a neighborhood where whites are in the minority, but when a US white person sees brown skin, they do categorize the owner by race, willingly or not, consciously or not.

If 'German' is the 'primary ancestry' of most counties in the US, that list doesn't necessarily prove much.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), Friday, March 16, 2018 3:48 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Why are only four English counties included on the list? Why is only one "American" county included?

when a US white person sees brown skin, they do categorize the owner by race, willingly or not, consciously or not.

― A is for (Aimless), Friday, March 16, 2018 5:41 PM (seven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Of course. I believe that many "US white person"s also categorize many "white ethnic"s by ethnicity/ancestry, consciously or not.

so anyway

New Weeds episode coming later today about abolishing ICE. @SeanMcElwee has successfully moved the Overton Window.

— Matthew Yglesias (@mattyglesias) March 16, 2018

When even the centrists are talking about it, that's progress.

I mean, I find it crazy that someone would readily acknowledge the distinctness of the 4.4 million ethnic Norwegians who live in Norway but strenuously object to the suggestion that there's something distinct about the 4.6 million Norwegian-Americans who have lived largely in the Upper Midwest for the past 100-170 years.

I don't think anyone is objecting to the suggestion that there's something distinct about particular ethnic groups, just questioning what that is and what it has to do with their voting patterns. You can assert anything but without unpacking what your claims are it's hard to respond or even understand what you're arguing. Like maybe what they share in common is a taste for lutefisk but otherwise don't share political opinions. After all, those 4.4 million ethnic Norwegians in Norway differ on numerous political issues, I'm sure. If anything American-Norwegians should be more varied (due to factors like intermarriage).

this is now the Fyre Festival of ILX threads

Each contributes according to his means.

This was not the gabbneb crazy turn I expected

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/022/524/tumblr_o16n2kBlpX1ta3qyvo1_1280.jpg

Why ban him? He's entertaining and a change of pace from the manifold Trump impersonations and breathless updates.

― Mordy, Friday, March 16, 2018 12:46 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

because he's already permanently banned (for reasons other than shitposting about german americans)

looks like current active mods are not letting themselves be bound by previous mods' decisions

There's always the magical 51. I have some German-American ancestry and I voted!

I will reiterate that he is a more interesting poster than anyone currently agitating for his banishment.

Almost onto something there

I am not at all surprised that someone who identifies with their Italian-American heritage might be particularly invested in subsuming their and others' European(-plus?) ancestry within the rubric of 'whiteness'

wowwwwwwwwwwwww

i can't remember what you were banned for before but hang around man you are making things interesting

appropriate lack of learning from history in the Democratic Party Strategy thread

hilary 2020

http://www.imagesjournal.com/issue02/features/groeng1.gif

"making things interesting"