ThReads Must Roll: the new, improved rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

i didn’t mind the conceptual flaws with the VR game, ledge.

two reasons: one is that the nonsense about mechanics of MMO that you rightly point out added to the mystery. the whole thing was so strange it didn’t matter to me.

second i thought the imagery and fun of chaotic / stable periods with humans superimposed on aliens was... fun! and resulted in some of the best imagery of the book. the pendulums, the animals flying out of the burning lands, the cauldron, walking through the sparse emptiness at the beginning.

i guess that v much links into thomp’s fantasy point, but i enjoyed it. like many things that fail to resolve satisfactorily it the crucial problem seems to be too many ideas. that’s definitely a side i’d rather an author fail on, than too lenten.

yeah it was definitely fun & had great imagery, e.g. the horserider on fire galloping into the palace shouting "dessicate! dessicate!"

Possibly mentioned this before but I think it's interesting that these current Chinese authors mostly get golden age SF, apparently the newer classics often aren't allowed by censors, apart from Neuromancer.

Sits interestingly in the discussion about new SF fans not reading golden age stuff or thinking it's bad.
http://youngpeoplereadoldsff.com/

Re: Clark Ashton Smith. He often talked about there being satiric elements in his work but it's not always obvious to me. He called a small spaceship "Space Annihilator" to be funny, but I thought it was just to be cool.

“dessicate! dessicate!” — it is interesting that in misremembering ledge has chosen a better word

i am at the bit where the cop says ‘if any of you try anything, I’ll shoot’ and then does not shoot during what sounds like an elaborate bit of business in which someone grabs a bomb

this is in the middle of a scene during which someone says ‘of course you already know the history of our organisation - but for our newcomer, i will repeat it’

these two flashback chapters had in them one relevant detail not extrapolatable from stuff the reader already knows

they did contain this bit of sub-ansible muddle-headedness though:

Ye’s hand hovered two centimetres above it.

(...)

Without hesitation, Ye pressed the button.

“Dr. Ding, would you please show Yang Dong’s note to Professor Wang?”

Hardest part for me was remembering who was who. Still, loved all three of them.

This just popped into my head from Jack Vance's Dying Earth

"Hold, hold, hold!" came a new voice. "Hold, hold, hold. My charms and tokens, an ill day for Thorsingol ... But then, avaunt, you ghost, back to the orifice, back and avaunt, avaunt, I say! Go, else I loose the actinics; trespass is not allowed, by supreme command from the Lycurgat; aye, the Lycurgat of Thorsingol. Avaunt, so then."

xp lol i thought dessicate was probably wrong but couldn't think of another word, what was it?

dehydrate

As she grew closer to Yang, he was able to get her many classics of foreign-language philosophy and history under the guise of gathering technical research materials. The bloody history of humanity shocked her, and the extraordinary insights of the philosophers also led her to understand the most fundamental and secret aspects of human nature.

The ETO concluded that the common people did not seem to have the comprehensive and deep understanding of the highly educated about the dark side of humanity. More importantly, because their thoughts were not as deeply influenced by modern science and philosophy, they still felt an overwhelming, instinctual identification with their own species.

on the advanced technology / fantasy point thomp, i think i agree. but the retention of scientistic language provides framework linking current day science and plausible future science to “fantasy science”. i’d also ask whether you’d include something that uses a scientific paradigm jump as its basic principle - like teleportation in The Stars My Destination - in that category.

bester -- it's a long time since i read him -- i recall as coherently doing one kind of thing. liu's book is, cough cough, like a particle extended into eleven dimensions, trying to occupy several different aesthetic positions at once: among others, those of stanislaw lem, blindsight, cryptonomicon, helliconia spring, the gods themselves, ender's game, the works of kilgore trout, and the fountainhead

the brief glimpse of trisolaria at the end kind of illustrates this -- their society is dunderheadedly tedious pop-eichmann, but then the shift into the fabulous when they're building the proton computer was one of the highlights of the book. HOWEVER as ledge correctly illustrates above 'it was protons all along!' is not a satisfying resolution to all the stuff set up in the first fifty pages of wang's story. -- while i can't imagine any reader not yelling at the chracters 'for god's sake, the game is a simulation of the alien civilisation ye made contact with forty years ago, catch up already'

(sidetrack: one of the standard readings of a detective fiction is that the real narrative is that he uncovers, which seems largely incorrect: the real narrative is the textural interest of how the detective interacts with his world. by the end of this novel, liu seems to have forgotten that he had provided his detective figure with a family and a past.)

more laziness:
-- the thunking chekhov's-gun landing when shi suggests using wang's nanofilament technology.
-- or that shen, who has been an Adventist for years, happens to be playing the game (why?) when wang comes by
-- the rather unlikely thread that leads wang to go visit ye for the first time, in order to provide the dramatic reveal that she's an Adventist leader

am i being too harsh, i don't know, my hand is hovering above the submit post button without hesitation

in retrospect, i realised i could have chosen a better term: by 'his detective figure' i mean the character who is the agent of the reader's encountering revelations about the past, that is, wang. not da shi, who is an actual detective.

I also cannot believe, Dehydrating or not, any large species could survive what their planet has gone through. Anthrax spores, maybe, but not a big animal. And surely a vast stable period, longer than human history, would be needed to develop to the point they could gather the resources to build a huge interstellar war fleet.

http://weirdfictionreview.com/2011/11/m-r-james-and-the-quantum-vampire-by-china-mieville/

i think you're being too harsh tbh xpost but making a fairly compelling argument doing so. the nanofilament thing is a bit bollocks obv but the whole reason for wang's involvement is that the trisolarians knew the technology would be dangerous. albeit not as a 'zither' but as a, errrrr, ladder into space iirc?

james that link looks like something i don't want to click on. i'm trusting you here.

I skimmed it a little bit and put it here for future reference. Not encouraging anyone else to click or not to click.

it's ok. i'm interested in the difference between horror and ghost stories, which roughly maps to his weird/hauntology categories. looking forward to reading it properly later. thanks for posting.

I was curious about that dichotomy too. Couldn’t quite follow the whole article.

I and/or also had trouble with it

Lol

I read it back when it came out but I don't remember much about it apart from his tattoo.

I recall somewhere here enjoying Steve Rasnic Tem, so you may be interested in this new best of collection
http://www.valancourtbooks.com/figures-unseen-2018.html

that china mieville piece is the epitome of using sesquipidalian and caliginous words not because they are useful and precise but because they are sesquipidalian and caliginous. pure cacography.

Okay, have to admit I came upon that article because it was linked in this article and was hoping somebody would either summarize it or confirm that it was kind of unreadable.

"I recall somewhere here enjoying Steve Rasnic Tem"

I really liked Deadfall Hotel! that's the only one of his that i've read though. I was totally casting a hypothetical Netflix series while reading it. Someone with a great visual sense/design sense could really go to town with it. i liked the mix of dread/creepy/spooky/humor. hard to mix all that together unless you know what you're doing.

i finished Spin and now i'm on to Axis and will have to find a copy of Vortex to finish the Robert Charles Wilson trilogy. might have to buy a copy on the dreaded online.

there is no name for it but i always feel a sense of sadness when i go to another book in a series and the original protagonists from the first book are old or dead. space age grieving. its even worse when the 2nd book starts like a million years after the events of the first book and the original characters are just legend or dimly remembered.

"I also cannot believe, Dehydrating or not, any large species could survive what their planet has gone through" -- I very much got the impression that some revelation about the biological structure of the aliens was being held in abeyance until book two or three, maybe they are in fact clouds of sentient spores, whatever.

I quite enjoyed the first two paragraphs of that China Mieville thing, I am mostly posting this as a reminded to myself to finish it.

I hope you're right. Probably about to read book 2 because, despite my complaints in this thread, I did find book 1 fascinating and compelling.

same tbh

I'm deep into that Mieville essay linked above and it's all worth it to witness his proposed reconciliation of the hauntological and Weird traditions, a TENTACLED SKULL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYPVyJwzerM

ksr, red mars:

Out on the flat sediment of the chasma floor there stood a classical Greek temple, six Dorian columns

dorian?

also describes one main character as 'dark' and 'swarthy' (twice). quit fucking around, is he black or white?

nitpicking though, enjoying it so far.

prepare to learn a lot about regolith.

gis suggests that nerds who've considered it think the character is white and/or alfred molina

but they could easily be wrong

Is there relogith on Mars?

Areolith?

Could not finish the Poe story "The Unparalleled Adventure of One Hans Pfaall", agonizingly detailed hard scifi with not enough juice, ended up skimming and reading snatches to see where it went. Then I discover it was a hoax piece. Makes a lot of sense.

Then "Gold Bug", much better and very impressively crafted. It's pretty racist but there's a hilarious bit where a black helper (neither a slave or quite a servant) prepares to beat his master with a stick for deceiving him earlier.

Areolith?

The Pulp Magazine archive: https://archive.org/details/pulpmagazinearchive&tab=collection

https://ia601005.us.archive.org/25/items/Usborne_Book_of_the_Future_1979_pointlessmuseum/Usborne_Book_of_the_Future_1979_pointlessmuseum.pdf

Now I'm depressed.

It's like an illustrated hyper optimistic version of Red Mars, set not in the future but right now! Do the germans have a word for the feeling of sadness generated by outdated visions of the future which underscore what a depressing place the world of today is?

Thought Red Mars was great btw, despite being too long with too much geology, especially in the last chapter which was short but seemed an interminable repetition of skin-of-the-teeth escapes from geological peril. Characters were pretty broad stroke but still way ahead of e.g. Clarke or Reynolds (no idea what Frank's goals or motivation were though). The chapter halfway through with psychologist Michel really sealed it for me; it seemed at the time almost transcendent and I had to stop reading and just sit back and ponder. A personal reaction I'm sure, no claim that it was Great Literature, but it certainly did offer a break from all the geology, an insight into a character rather different from the rest, and a narrative boost just when it was needed.

the mars books just get better and better in my opinion. the first book is kind of a test. to see if you can get through all the rock talk. then things get really crazy!

will definitely re-read again at some point.

I love the madness as the big cables come down.

Characters were pretty broad stroke but still way ahead of e.g. Clarke or Reynolds (no idea what Frank's goals or motivation were though). The chapter halfway through with psychologist Michel really sealed it for me; it seemed at the time almost transcendent and I had to stop reading and just sit back and ponder.
Seems like you might enjoy Green Earth, the one-volume mixdown of his Science In The Capitol trilogy. You know he's uneven and odd, but yeah transcendent at times, like when Thoreau goes viral among the post-flood squatters in parks and buildings around DC (a post-flood funland, with plenty wireless; he's a green post-cyberpunk, and though climate disruption does suck and will suck worse for many/most, some survivors may have an awesome afterlife, at least for a while). He loves The Great Outdoors, DC, New England maritimes, California coast and mountains--anyway I carried on about it upthread a while back.
The only other KSR novel I've read is The Wild Shore, also post(?)-cataclysmic open air adventures (first of the Three California series), maybe more consistent than Green Earth (read that one in the 80s, but fairly sure it was; not as much risk-taking though).

Wild Shore is great, that’s the last KSR I read.

Yeah, it was exhilarating.
Wikip:
The Three Californias Trilogy (also known as the Wild Shore Triptych and the Orange County Trilogy) consists of three books by Kim Stanley Robinson, that depict three different possible futures of Orange County, California. The three books that make up the trilogy are The Wild Shore, The Gold Coast and Pacific Edge. Each of these books describes the life of young people in the three very different near-futures. All three novels begin with an excavation which tells the reader about the world they are entering.

Only other KSR I've read is Aurora, which was great, guess I'll add all these others to the long-term list. (I bought the collected Mars trilogy but I'm not going to get straight into it.)