the alt-right

It's possible to dislike a meme or joke. I'm not sure you know what concern trolling is.

It's a meme. A joke.

lmao from what other corners have I heard the "we're just having a laugh" argument

Idc about chuds' feelings and I don't think it's "concern trolling" to say that some arguments (or jokes) are not going to be v effective in bringing people onside. I get that's not always the point.

feels a bit like we're missing the forest for the trees. the bigger-picture contribution of so-called SJWs has surely been to highlight the "difficulty settings" themselves, not the "losers." i mean essentially we're looking at a popularization and memeification of understanding structural racism, structural sexism, etc., known to countless humanities undergrads for generations. so many little comics explaining privilege, new variations on the "invisible knapsack," and so on. individuals reaching for zings at members of privileged groups surely exist but that seems idk super minor.

depends which groups you belong to obv

I wasn't really saying that this meme is the primary focus of race and gender activists, or that it discounts the whole project, just that it's a popular meme that I don't think really works.

I don't think it's "concern trolling" to say that some arguments (or jokes) are not going to be v effective in bringing people onside. I get that's not always the point.

― Simon H., 21. marts 2018 14:30 (six minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You get it :)

it's a popular meme that I don't think really works.

― No purposes. Sounds. (Sund4r), 21. marts 2018 14:36 (eighteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You don't

i think it's wrong to be needlessly mean to people but on the other hand i don't have much faith in the idea that people in positions of power/privilege will voluntarily give it up en masse thru a process of enlightened persuasion

If we want to talk about things working or not, I don't think spending an inordinate amount of time policing womens jokes will do much in the creation of a progressive political coalition.

politely discussing on a msg board is my fave form of policing

Mine as well

Lol @ an hour on a message board while waiting on hold = "policing for an inordinate amount of time". The reasons why I don't think it works don't have to do with strategy or coalition-building btw. 2xp

I’ve always figured that MWM snark was helpful in reminding me to check myself and as a series of illustrative examples. Also I’m definitely sympathetic because I’ve always worked around and for pretty powerful white dudes whose crowning qualification for anything was being morning people.

It def makes me remember how many breaks I got back when I was a mediocre film critic.

Well, I'm going to shut up and listen to white men, then. They mostly seem OK with this (although they might not be mediocre enough). xp I defer to your mediocrity.

Anyway, stupid white people!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/satanism-drama-is-tearing-apart-the-murderous-neo-nazi-group-atomwaffen

Oh my god

Another Atomwaffen-affiliated person created a Gab account aimed at “exposing” the group’s satanic ties, and started leaking Atomwaffen chat logs, alongside Harry Potter memes. That person linked to audio of a call, purportedly between Atomwaffen members arguing about satanism.

“In your opinion, Satanism contradicts the ideals of national socialism, right?” one Atomwaffen member asked another during the debate.“Yeah,” the second man answered.
“Okay, I’m not gonna try to get mad and say you’re a fuckin idiot,” the first said. “Like, I want to know legitimately what part of it contradicts the ideals of national socialism.”
“Uh, every part. I’ve literally read both those books. Nothing in it stood out to me as—”
“Have you read the Satanic Principles?” the first Atomwaffen member interrupted. “The fucking baseline ideas of what Satanism stands for? You cannot honestly read that and tell me it reflects none of what national socialism teaches.”

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J41iFYO0NQA/hqdefault.jpg

say what you like about the tenets of national socialism, dude, but at least it's compatible with satanism

“Harry Potter memes” and “literally read both those books,” it’s too much

satanists are usually a great bunch of lads ime, kinda sucks that nazis are dragging their good name through the mud like this

god i wish i could see those harry potter memes, bet they're dank as fuck

i remember when ppl used the term "speech policing" and idpol folks went bananas, "you consider chiding and mockery on the internet to be equivalent of pigs shooting black men in the street???" but i guess that was just a rhetorical tactic and not real moral outrage in hindsight.

wasn't it 'tone policing' get it right u monster

i can't believe you'd use the term monster what am i walking around w/ bolts in my skull brought to life by lightning? sucking the blood of innocents on the streets of london? some hideous deformed green thing that has emerged from the local swamp???

the monster was actually named 'doctor'

Some of like the swamp so much we moved here and started families. So what.

Yeah wait I thought Satanists were cool :( are they cancelled?

there are two major groups that call themselves Satanists, one of which is cool and the other not so much

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-differences-between-Anton-LaVeys-Church-of-Satan-and-the-Satanic-Temple

it's more satanic that way

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world one of him was cool

Good friend of mine was telling me her 10th grade son is getting into this stuff and I didn't know what to tell her, nor do I have any idea what I'd do if my own son got into it when he was older.

what, satanism?

the internet

I think I was in 9th or 10th grade when I was told about/shown Anton LeVey in the Hoel California gatefold, it made no lasting impresYOUR MOTHER SUCKS COCKS IN HELL

Play him the Dollop episode about the rocket scientist satanist guy. The ending should convince him it's actually, uh, not that cool in the final analysis.

I'm grateful that my youthful ideological indiscretions were only being a dogmatic atheist who read Richard Dawnkins' The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker ostentatiously at school. It's a weird time to grow up.

blowing yourself up in your garage while doing homebrew rocketry after stealing l ron hubbard's money and his girlfriend isn't cool to you?

wtf simon i thought i knew you

(the jack parsons story is incredible tbh, i think we have a thread for him somewhere)

sorry i meant my friend's son is getting into alt-right stuff

i'd far prefer a satanist son than an alt-right one

blowing yourself up in your garage while doing homebrew rocketry after stealing l ron hubbard's money and his girlfriend isn't cool to you?

that's not really the bit I had in mind lol

https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/marvel_spotlight_13-600x874.jpg

also, didn't L Ron Hubbard steal HIS wife?

sorry i meant my friend's son is getting into alt-right stuff

― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:05 AM (nine minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

have you tried calling him a racist sexist bigot homophobe transphobe asshole?

maybe see if he has any tweets that will get him kicked out of school

there was a parenting thread on this theme recently (child getting into the alt-right) w/ some varied advice. i think it helps to get where the kid is coming from and what is motivating them. if they're just into the edginess and transgressiveness you'd need to have a different conversation (and steer them differently) then if they're having anxiety about their future, and totally different from if they just hate hypocritical progressives, etc. hopefully parents have been engaging their kids on these kinds of topics for years tho and aren't just getting started when they find /pol/ bookmarked in safari.

actually yeah you're right xxp

but either way i'm still not convinced that pointing to the example of the dashingly handsome founder of jpl who lived a life of wild abandon is gonna do much to dissuade young people from exploring satanism

A close friend of mine's 15yo son with autism (mild, but more than aspie) is into this stuff too (alt-right, not satanism). Youtube was definitely the main vector, which is why I brought it up up-thread.

For him, it's obviously not at all about edginess or the shock value or masculinity or the appeal of violence. He's earnest, without that sly disingenuousness (yes, "bad faith") that's the stock-in-trade of every Republican voter.

I think it has to do with a warped sense of fairness, of not understanding the fundamental asymmetries between, for example, the left and the right. The modern world, I guess, is understood only through a narrative lens, where every force is met with another that is understood to be by definition equal and opposite. Things like "good" and "evil" are just tags, just hats that different teams wear. So he gets righteously indignant when a nazi gets punched in the face or not allowed to speak on a campus, because that's not "fair". He can't understand that antifa and nazis aren't just the same guys with different uniforms. His world is so safe that he doesn't understand the stakes. I think that's a big part of why Trump got elected: people wanting to "shake things up" have no conception of how bad things can be. The worst thing they can imagine is a really bad recession; they can't begin to conceive that genocide could happen here, or what totalitarianism actually entails.

booming post

time for a visit to the holocaust museum

otm