the alt-right

looool

my posts are free y'all

just show him this meme

https://i.imgur.com/RtYEoiL.jpg

― kurt schwitterz

i laughed

same

pretty good

https://twitter.com/JPetersonReview

why not ask him to show you some passages JP has written that he finds particularly meaningful and then read them yourself and discuss them with him?

― Mordy, Thursday, March 22, 2018 5:58 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This would be ideal if there were any passages he could point to to begin with.

I'm pretty certain he exclusively watches youtube clips and listens to podcasts, which is why I had hoped one of those summarise stuff youtube people (vox, nerdwriter etc.) had done like a primer or something I could use as a starting point. Surprised how hard it is to find stuff like that.

Really though the idea of having to personally listen to hours of Jordan Peterson just to be able to make a case to my friend gives me hives. I know its potentially counterproductive to look for shortcuts with things like this but life's too short

Doesn't help that he himself is hazy on the appeal. Much of what he says he likes boils down to, "He's just so honest", "He breaks things down really well", "Leaves no room for excuses".

i hate watching youtube lectures really from anyone and from JP in particular i imagine it's a nightmare but maybe you could say to him "hey i really want to understand the appeal is there a particular 5 minute segment somewhere that you think is just the best thing you've heard from him so i can get an idea of what you like?"

I mean the latest Chapo is a pretty sober conversation pointing out JP's snake oil bullshit, even though the ep starts with a bad Elon Musk improv bit - but why is does a Joe Rogan fan need a non-jokey, intellectual discussion of JP?

Nathan Robinson was on Majority Report on Monday to go over his Peterson piece and is really good:

http://majorityfm.libsyn.com/1798-jordan-peterson-the-intellectual-we-deserve-w-nathan-j-robinson

tell em grown ass men shouldn't need a YouTube Daddy.

oh man im going to steal that

You guys joke but his rules are being widely applied in crucial situations.

https://instagram.com/p/Benm0eZFxTl/

thanks for the pod xps some pretty useful segments I can clip. and thanks Mordy will give it a go

Trying really hard not to be condescending here cause that seems like the easiest way to make sure he has no time for anything I say.

Don't really know the average profile of the young guys consuming this stuff but here I'm talking about someone who sent to London as a 9 year old, first gen immigrant with no fixed parental figure of any kind. A guy who escaped the juvenile offender trap, got a degree, started a career but fought uphill all the way.

Or in other words someone who could reasonably argue a youtube daddy is better than none.

If he feels the absence of kind of mentor figure in his life who am I to tell him otherwise?

It feels not good the way this fucker’s name is just everywhere now

That he might as well be watching a cartoon or a televangelist

Milo’s name was all over the place, what, a year ago?

Did you miss the part where I was trying not to condescend?

Hang fire that instagram pic a few posts up is 2 months old and i've no idea who that 'author' is but he's only got 940 followers!

Much of what he says he likes boils down to, "He's just so honest", "He breaks things down really well", "Leaves no room for excuses"

these are the words of a person for whom things must be made more difficult

Did you miss the part where I was trying not to condescend?

Doug Lain at Zero Books has put out several vids responding to and debunking JP

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFad02vA5AOE1H54uQgJbJxBDonm-Gmpw

ugh

i have scanned through MAPS OF MEANING and i am both chagrined and gratified to report that max is right

irritatingly, it seems ideally suited to bolstering the credibility of a charlatan

Much of what he says he likes boils down to, "He's just so honest", "He breaks things down really well", "Leaves no room for excuses"

these are the words of a person for whom things must be made more difficult

Then I guess the question is how do you get somebody to actually want that? Cause I don't think you get anywhere unless they do.

I guess I did, and then thought about it, and I think the ref is going to call this wrestling match a draw at this point. That (points at screen) is not a good mentor. Somebody he knows is just as wise and cares a lot more about him. JP clearly only cares himself.

Because bolded aside (cause how would this even be an issue if that were true? and even if it were what's to say that person is free to be talking into his ear during his morning commute?) I don't struggle to see that. But the fact that its obvious to you and me has no bearing on why he see's things differently.

lol i dunno, ask kierkegaard, or socrates

JP's individual focus let's him offer a lot of inspirational Take Charge advice but he just doesn't seem to understand any wider structural pressures. if I were trying to get someone to rethink I'd try to find a case of someone who they were sympathetic to who suffered bc of systemic unfairness and point out how unsympathetic JP would be and try to chip away at the Tough Dad Telling It Like It Is to reveal the ignorance underneath. or just be lazy and do extremely enthusiastic and bad JP-like takes on everything (kermit voice optional) until they get fed up

he's such a silly figure you can have a lot of gentle fun with his views without acting like a blowhard

this is the banner from the JP reddit

https://i.imgur.com/2VkqooM.jpg

I think ppl should be able to be more convincingly straight and less bullshitty than this

It’s missing some key elements of Nintendo and Disney IP

this is the banner from the JP reddit

Poll

gotta be honest i keep think y'all are talking about Jurassic Park itt

other JP less culturally important than that

I dunno if pointing out Peterson's shallowness as a philosopher is going to get fans on your side any more than pointing out his reprehensible politics because what ppl are using Peterson for is self-help, and "accepting platitudes as great meaning" and "reading content into vague assertions" is what most of that stuff boils down to even when it's not weighed down w/ dodgy ideology. People enjoy thinking that he's a deep philosopher for the cred but I doubt many are reading him as an alternative to Derrida (or whoever).

Otoh while I certainly have a knee-jerk dislike of self-help it can and has been helpful to ppl in my life, so pointing ppl to others who provide those services would maybe work - can't help at all re: who that could be tho.

Therapists

I don't think ppl who opt for Peterson because they view him as more manly and credible than other self-help gurus are likely to be open to therapy, at least not unless you put in a *lot* of work to acclimatize them first.

lol was just gonna suggest "real men"

just realised there might be a gap in the market here, could charge people £60 an hour to shout "PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER" at them in a quiet room

yeah this would be like trying to convince neil degrasse tyson fans that his scientific work has been dogged by accusations of improperly isolated samples and potentially misleading statistical regression or something. it's not what they're there for.

really what this comes down to is that youtube is a fucking curse and it should be blasted from existence immediately

These last few takedowns - and the meltdown - seems to have shifted the discourse around JP quite a lot, though. Perhaps not among his fans, but I'll assume most commentators will think twice before they praise him again. I don't think many of those people had read him either.

yeah I thought it was overkill at first but I think it's actually been somewhat helpful

Which parts did you think were overkill?

oh just the sheer number of long pieces on him - Nathan J Robinson in Current Affairs, Shuja Haider in Viewpoint (and again on Chapo), John Semley in the Globe, Pankaj Mishra in NYRB, probably more I'm forgetting about, all with somewhat different approaches

any degree of attention is overkill tbh

I mean, the attention was happening anyway. he has a bestseller and a massive following.

Oh, ok. Personally, I would have been fine with just Robinson and Mishra, and Mishra is really trying to get at something else and broader. I'd really love for JP to fuck off at this point, he seems profoundly exposed, but oh well. I'm also thinking of writing an essay on the recent mythological turn in a lot of underground cinema, and I should probably read JP for that :(

all those pieces appearing at once is of course evidence that jp's unassailable logic has leftists shook to their cores and they have been coordinating against him behind the scenes

i figure there must be lots better Jungians and mythology profs than JP to turn to, kind of doubt his academic chops. would faaaaar rather read James Hillman on Jung, for one thing

yeah but they won't tell readers to wipe thoroughly or w/ever

all the jung and mythology stuff just seem like props to hold up peterson's ridiculous opinions, i v much doubt he actually has anything novel or interesting to say about either topic

it's like dear old Dick Dawks, once you set yourself up as a Twitter defender of truth it actually undermines any good academic work you might've previously done