help me with my class?

It's not a hoax, it's just a recording from much later (I think 1930s) that people always cut up and try to pass off as the original, long-lost tinfoil recording from 1877.

oh
do you know if there is a real one?

this is what i get for trying to show off!

there are def extant v v primitive recordings of brahms playing the piano which were made in 1889... twelve years earlier though...

are they on youtube? i feel dumb for believing that this was real but oh well.
if everything else didn't ruin my feelings about this class, this isn't going to do it!

i think so yeah (brahms 1889 on youtube)

wow the earliest playable sound recordings are a LOT earlier than I guessed

http://www.firstsounds.org/sounds/

Is the 1878 Edison on this site the debunked one?

Don't worry, it's still really him! So you didn't really lie to them.

I am trying not to spam my website too much, but I do make this history of recorded sound - the relevant episodes are here - https://centuriesofsound.wordpress.com/2017/02/15/1878-1885/ - and here - https://centuriesofsound.wordpress.com/2017/03/13/1887-1888/ - please feel free to dig around there too, the most recent episode about 1901 is easily my favourite so far - https://centuriesofsound.wordpress.com/2018/04/02/1901/

But as for the specifics - there *is* a recording of a voice reciting 'Mary Had A Little Lamb' from 1878, but it almost certainly isn't the voice of Edison, actually very interesting anyway, you can find out about it here - https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/10/scientists-recover-the-sounds-of-19th-century-music-and-laughter-from-the-oldest-playable-american-recording/264147/

The earliest recording of Edison's voice that I'm aware of is this weird thing 'Around The World on the Phonograph' from 1888

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3ajRIMXgFA

ooooooh thank you!! that's awesome!! i will share with them.

I am trying not to spam my website too much, but I do make this history of recorded sound

which is totally amazing.

it's not spam if "help me" is in the thread title :)

Thanks for the reassurance, it takes up most of my free time right now and will do for the next decade or more, so I'm sort of self-conscious about talking about it too much on here, especially when I post a new episode and don't get any replies, just don't want anyone to feel that they are being continually told about something not of interest to them.

it takes up most of my free time right now and will do for the next decade or more, so I'm sort of self-conscious about talking about it too much on here, especially when I post a new episode something i made and spent time/effort on and don't get any replies, just don't want anyone to feel that they are being continually told about something not of interest to them.

i know that feeling -- hard to straddle the line between not bothering people and being invisible. these days i am erring on the side of "do it regardless" because no one will know it's there unless i tell them. likewise for your project! the more you share it, the more other people will see it and be like hey that's cool. if people are annoyed, they are free to ignore me, which is where i was at the beginning so no harm done. self-promotion is unnecessarily stigmatized because a minority of people go overboard imo. in general, there is no other way to let people know what you have been working on! i have thoughts about this apparently.

wow also thank you for sharing all of that information.
i for one am grateful and my students will love that i made a mistake and found better information for them.

No worries sharing information - I have been immersed in (so far) 1859 to 1913 for more than two years now and am absolutely itching to share things with anyone even vaguely interested.

Thanks for the reassurance, it takes up most of my free time right now and will do for the next decade or more, so I'm sort of self-conscious about talking about it too much on here, especially when I post a new episode and don't get any replies, just don't want anyone to feel that they are being continually told about something not of interest to them.

― mfktz (Camaraderie at Arms Length)

yeah i know the feeling, no, your site is great and your project is great and i'm quiet about it because i have nothing meaningful to contribute most of the time - i can't speak for anybody else but i get the feeling i'm not alone in that

love those mixes, Camaraderie. They get together so many facets of the era while feeling cohesive.

I wonder if your students might find George Gershwin's piano roll albums interesting? Came out on two sep. CDs (that I know of, might be more) a number of years ago: just George, playing his songs, pretty awesome. Also have occasionally heard (on NPR) some episodes of his live, music-centric radio show ("And who's this, dropping in on us this evening? Paul Robeson, oh, hello, Paul.") Might be online etc.

The piano rolls have a sparkling, somewhat surreal robo-flow, as you might expect.

Also wonder what they might think of Four Saints In Three Acts, the opera with gospel singers, by Virgil Thomson and Gertrude Stein? "Pigeons in the grass alas," GS doing her wordkouts w VT's gospel-derived/-based motifs, sometimes entire melodies of trad. hymns I think. Thomson and some of the singers may have come by George's show, or did I dream that? I'm sure he would have played right along, nothing seemed to faze him.

Yeah, piano rolls can be just amazing - the standard ones for player pianos, not so much, but Welte-Mignon rolls also recorded the tempo, phrasing, dynamics and pedalling, so with the proper production (a player grand piano in a concert hall!) we can get new recordings of performances by not just Gershwin but Debussy and Ravel. The rolls by Scott Joplin are unfortunately from the end of his life and he seems to have a tremor, so they are more sad than enjoyable.

(thanks for kind words above rushomancy & bendy!)

The Debussy piano rolls are bizarre to me. I wish we could know how accurate that rubato is to what he played.

practical matters --

QUESTION 1 -- Aside from Stax/Volt & Motown, remind me if there are other musically/historically significant record labels (not existing/major labels) that emerged in the 1960s
QUESTION 2 -- Aside from Phil Spector, Brian Wilson were there other mainstream producers whose ideas characterized the music of the 1960s or were revived at a later date? Berry Gordy?

i am trying to organize my 1960s lesson and it feels like i am burying myself in information
too much to say for one class

re producers, George Martin

1: Studio One, Fania, Impulse!

1. ESP-DISK 2. John Hammond signed Dylan and made sure his then-unusual sound and material came through, unscrewed-with, and on major label Columbia, not Vanguard etc (see also "Hammond's Folly"). Made sure Robert Johnson's sides were finally issued on legit LP, also weird then for Columbia. Signed
Canadian thirtysomething hubbie-dad-novelist-poet L. Cohen, to Columbia as a deep singer-songwriter, the kids don't want that, John!

producers: bacharach & david

producers: norman whitfield, holland-dozier-holland

yes, now we're talking
thank you. these are people/things i know of but never directly associated with the 1960s or forgot!
we are def getting into fania (even though i recently learned that willie colon is an active trumpist :( )

Producer: Lee Hazlewood

REQUEST: youtubes of Beatles-inspired bands from around the world (contemporaneous with the Beatles or shortly after) I know there was a comp released of maybe Mexican Beatles-inspired bands? I can't remember. Help!

(I am googling like crazy today getting ready for my 1960s class. I have limited time and resources but I want to give them as much info as possible, all relevant suggestions appreciated!)

ohhh, i have a ton of global beatles covers, hope i'm not shitting up the thread too bad with video links:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hp_cBozufs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSqh0bZmwQk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpN9JkV8dU4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mS6deAXRzY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtpDmZpjsJE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-XtLm_VsPg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkFG5SoXsVk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pb4naN_r7M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfSXJ0d2P3M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gs5NxjxG0_8

I seem to remember reading somewhere that Os Mutantes were Beatles fanatics? Don't think they covered any Beatles songs, though.

perfect -- that is exactly what i needed! mission accomplished!
i have Os Mutantes on the plan already ;) i need to cover the big topics so this "meanwhile, in the rest of the world" section is an aside with links so we're not going into super detail bc there is so much to cover

i am excited to go from "theme from a summer place" to VU but also trying to stay focused & keep breathing :)

Ooh there is also a Cathy Berberian record where she does her thing to the Beatles songbook, I can ysi if u need it.

Also, in terms of doing something distinctive, self-expressive with Beatle-y sounds, the first two Big Star albums---Third/Sister Lovers has more of a Velvet Underground vibe---although they always seemed like they liked Left Banke too, and LB had their own bittersweet childe of JohnPaulGeorge thing going on, gliding on thee strings more often and reliably than actual Beatles did.

Ray Charles' "Eleanor Rigby," Wilson Pickett's "Hey Jude" (even way before Duane Allman cuts loose), 80i(Eno, Manzanera etc)'s live "Tomorrow Never Knows," Smokey Robinson's "Yesterday," Willie Nelson's too: both live and acappella (or just about). Maybe Beatallica, but I haven't heard it (reminds me that Cobain said his basic idea for Nirvana was Black Sabbath Beatles)

801, that is.

glad to help - oh i forgot one more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYnqVS0eDdA

as for ray charles more people need to hear his version of "the long and winding road", which is actually good

i spent many hours putting together tonight's presentation and it was worth it. my coverage of the 1960s was far from comprehensive but i did the best i could under the circumstances, as usual
highlights:

* going from "theme from a summer place" to "black sabbath"
* they liked "sittin' on the dock of the bay"
* youngest student (ardent 1D fan) heard more beatles songs than she had ever heard in her life and she liked them
* talking about beatlemania was fun
* i wore a period-appropriate dress & shoes
* the big one -- their favorite version of "all along the watchtower" truly shocked me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmrql7Zhg-c

* they also enjoyed learning about leonard cohen

It's that time!!

REQUEST: nonanglophone punk/new wave/synth pop from around the world in the late 70s/early 80s

REQUEST: essential must hear rap 1977-1984? is there a list of such a thing somewhere (on ilx or elsewhere)?

i have been trying not to feed them any company line about the "invention" (usually dubious) or "importance" (extremely subjective) or any particular type of music or subgenre. just trying to give them an idea of when and how influential sounds emerged.

Have you seen Hip Hop Evolution on Netflix? First episode is as good a primer on hip hop's beginnings as I've run across.

REQUEST: nonanglophone punk/new wave/synth pop from around the world in the late 70s/early 80s

Kleenex (who later changed their name to LiLiPUT) - an all-female Swiss punk band, very influential on some (obscure) 90s bands I love

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp8NYBUBnss

I also love early-80s Japanese new wave synth pop but don't know much about it - know this is amazing though-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHGqvYVfpEU

i'm going to have to save hip hop evolution (the whole concept) for next week, will watch
thanks for those two -- helpful!
i just need a few examples of international iterations of the punk/new wave/synth pop concept -- any contributions welcome. i don't know much about this but i know it's out there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7X6oYg6iro

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2lvpLX8CCU

You can cover international synth pop/wave with this one, and mention Italo in passing :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSqdiyg4iAU

I know that Poland was especially replete with synth pop acts in that period but I don’t know any names

neither do i!
i am looking for more non-euro stuff if anyone has brilliant ideas

not non-euro, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTo79sPCVXA