Bang Bang You're Dead... POLL In Your Head - ILM Artist Poll #87 - SMASHING PUMPKINS - Results

bead curtains and hookah pipes in aural form

xp ILM has always been contrary. Like when we voted 'Good Vibrations' as the worst song on Smiley Smile

"disarm" is also one of their best videos imo

for a band whose fame coincided with the peak of '90s mtv most of their music videos are kinda weird fiascos though

Disarm was the first song I learned on guitar (MCIS was the second) so I'll always have a soft spot for it.

'Glass and the Ghost Children' is a stunner - one of the tracks on MACHINA that works, although I have a preference for the first part. 'Farewell and Goodnight' is pretty, but I never find myself listening to it as a standalone track, always in context. 'x.y.u.' was a grower for me back when I first heard the album, but fucking love it now.

Mellon Collie and The Beatles both have this "every song given its own distinct sonic treatment" feel, as Brad says, but I think Mellon Collie is more excessive and a better record. There's a lot of stuff on The Beatles which is tossed off fluff, but Corgan for the most part just can't leave things alone, and that's why Mellon Collie works for me. Quantity, diversity and quality.

I sometimes get the one-word song titles on Gish mixed up but yeah I like this one a lot (although I heard the Tricky song that samples it first so it took a bit of getting used to).

'Suffer' is great - love the drumming and the way everything generally sounds on the track. I rate the two songs after it on Gish higher, though!

although I heard the Tricky song that samples it first

i COMPLETELY forgot about this

re: White Album comparisons Corgan's said that his goal with MCIS was more The Wall rather than The White Album

https://i.imgur.com/59BeivE.jpg
58. Tear
134 points, 4 votes
From: Adore, 1998

https://i.imgur.com/M4Xrzvi.jpg
58. Real Love
134 points, 7 votes
From: Machina II/The Friends and Enemies of Modern Music, 2000

He should have lied and told everyone it was a concept album, just to see what crazy meanings the hardcore would read into it while trying to figure out what the non-existent concept was.

Ah, not a huge fan of either of these, although the riff on 'Tear' is quite nice.

He should have lied and told everyone it was a concept album, just to see what crazy meanings the hardcore would read into it while trying to figure out what the non-existent concept was.

― Le Baton Rose (Turrican), Thursday, April 5, 2018 9:00 AM (eighteen seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i mean it's not like machina's concept is meaningful or interesting so he essentially did this later for a different album

overdriven machina-style production really works on "real love," which is prob somewhat due to how much sunnier it is than anything that actually made the album

With Every Light isn't sunny enough for you?

At least MACHINA has a concept, though!

Hard to break through the Machina production on first listen. I think there's a nice synth in there.

Yeah, wtf, 'With Every Light' is one of their sunniest ever tracks.

This is all for the meantime, though there will be more some time later today.

I love Real Love, the best of the noisy Machina II production and reminiscent of YMMR-era MBV in its swirling rush. On the other hand, Tear is one of the weaker tracks on Adore and definitely two minutes too long - it'd be fine if that synth interlude was the outro.

With Every Light isn't sunny enough for you?

― Fetchboy, Thursday, April 5, 2018 9:04 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

sunnier with a ton of distorted guitars, fine ("with every light" is a v sad song imo)

"Real Love" made my ballot. One of their most shoegaze-like tracks. It glistens.

like it or not, one of the iconic Pumpkins songs

I'm guessing enough of us were in the "not" camp.

"tear" was the first album track i enjoyed on adore before the rest of the record started making sense me, so i'll always love it even if i think it's the most obvious and obnoxious six minutes on the record

Originally written for Lost Highway but rejected by Lynch

the synth interlude is one of my favorite moments in the whole discography though. a lot of adore tracks feel like they become different songs in their bridges ("daphne," "behold the nightmare," "blank page" and this one)

ha, I'm just now seeing the pissy electric Disarm from the 1994 VMAs, which was apparently a 'fuck you' to MTV for forcing them to play that song

They did the same version on that English show The Word in early 94. They could’ve played anything they wanted (Green Day played Armatage Shanks the same night, a song that wouldn’t be released for another year). I look at that Disarm performance as the climax of the band/Billy’s attitude during Lollapalooza, which yes, is m/l “FUCK YOU”

they've always been a v antagonistic live band

i think it sucks for the most part (billy's live voice is intolerable between 94-... zwan?)

Also, it was banned from Top of the Pops for lyrical content advocating the cutting of little children?

but i love the arrangements on the adore tour so much that i suffer through it xp

a 'fuck you' to MTV for forcing them to play that song

Haha wtf

enjoying brad's alt.collie. good b-side inclusion, and the album really does benefit from fewer startling transitions. there are mid-track startling transitions anyway.

happy that disarm placed anywhere. was a necessary struggle to keep it on my ballot. lol @ flappy's #1, though I suppose he would choose the aperture to his favorite album which he can flap through.

and I love MCIS the song, too. not trying to criticize the choice.

'Real Love' is a really nice proto-Zwan track; 'Tear' I'm really not so keen on, too plodding, definitely one I'd cut from Adore.

"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" is so mournful, I once read something someone said about how it sounds like the end of a long, sad play- but it's the beginning of a two hour double album. the end is built into the beginning. as an overture, a thesis statement for the album's concept - that life is happy, life is sad, life is glorious, life is terrible, and everything in between - Billy somehow managed to convey all of that in less than 3 minutes on an instrument he wasn't even proficient in. it's so evocative on its own but also in the context of where the band was at in late 94/95 - they sensed the alt rock/grunge boom coming to an end, and MCIS was going to be their final rock statement before they moved on. and knowing everything horrible and amazing that happened in 1996, the song gains even more resonance. but above all, nothing else has spoken to me like this song as a summation of what life is like. wonderful, horrible, blessed, cursed, and won. nowhere and forever. without a care in this whole world. the beautiful, the tragic. mellon collie and the infinite sadness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4p4UML8qJNc

did he write it in a higher key or is the pitch off bc of the tape speed on that demo

good post, flappy. alt.collie increased my appreciation for Cherry, Set the Ray to Jerry, and Tonight, Tonight Reprise. But to my ears, The Boy doesn't really hold its own when placed in the album.

i don't blame you for feeling that way sufjan but i gotta live my truth

perhaps 3 others out there on ilm living it with you

thanks sufjan

brad - it's a mystery ha! because there's this video of him playing it for the MTV Rockumentary where it's in D minor instead of C#. maybe they sped the tape up or down a half step on the album? don't know why though. anyway this performance features a really beautiful intro to the song that doesn't appear anywhere else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKo4eT38XS4

but yeah the tape speed on that first demo is probably running fast. given his limited piano playing abilities, it makes sense that he'd write it in a whole note scale (not that it's difficult to play in C# - though from what i remember of the Ravinia show recordings, he played it in D minor there too).

"Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness" is so mournful, I once read something someone said about how it sounds like the end of a long, sad play

It doesn't sound like this to me at all - I think it's a pretty, scene setting piece of music that sets up the thundering intro of 'Tonight, Tonight' amazingly, but when I think "mournful", I think of some of the more downbeat tracks of The Cure circa 1980-1982 or some of the selections from Adore rather than this. It's also nice to have a musical theme to riff on to help cohere an all-over-the-map LP.

the mournful quality of the song comes from how innocent and naively pretty it is in the beginning, before moving suddenly to E and G#. it's a jolt, a sobering reminder, acknowledging that nothing lasts forever, that life can be turned upside down or obliterated at any moment. the movement from C# to E and G# shows that clash. i hear all of life within those 3 minutes: optimism, purity, cynicism, sorrow, resignation, determination, love lost and won. Billy goes on to work through his existential issues for the next two hours, but before Tonight, Tonight even begins, he's said it all without words. it's just a remarkable piece of music, an ersatz Debussy ditty that distills so much into so little. it's a monumental achievement and functions perfectly as the title track, because it contains everything that will follow, the spectrum bookended by the romance of Cupid or Lily or Beautiful to the fury of X.Y.U. or Bullet or Fuck You.

Hmm. E to G# isn't a change I'd normally describe as jarring, but still I'm glad you get all of that out of it. For me, the stuff that truly moves me comes much later on.

it's the movement from C# to E that's jarring. E and G# are the basis of the second part of the song.

flappy these are lovely words but there's no point in discussing this with Turrican. He's right about everything, even your own subjective POV

also wait lol who voted for X.Y.U. as their #1?? props. I think it was #15 or #16 on my ballot. So brutal and messy, one of the very few songs they recorded completely live, vocals and all. such a thrilling performance. a fitting apotheosis of rage followed by the gentle comedown of the final suite.

y'all it is dangerous to talk about chords