Bang Bang You're Dead... POLL In Your Head - ILM Artist Poll #87 - SMASHING PUMPKINS - Results

I mean, "Geek U.S.A." and "Stand Inside Your Love" tying seems like evidence there are potentially populations of listeners looking for *very* different things from SP. Which I guess makes them interesting as a band. But to me, the latter is so static--even in its "loud/soft" dynamics"--that it can't hold interest for more than a minute; while "Geek U.S.A." has genuine dynamics and depth and variety, while cohering very well as a song and as part of the vision of 'Siamese Dream'.

Ehh, half the people I knew thought SP lost the tack after Gish. For a band that evolved at the pace they did there will always be people who would rather them stick to whatever they might consider the band's strengths.

https://i.imgur.com/DMVGXnw.jpg
16. Here is No Why
432 points, 15 votes, 1 #1 vote
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

I mean, "Geek U.S.A." and "Stand Inside Your Love" tying seems like evidence there are potentially populations of listeners looking for *very* different things from SP. Which I guess makes them interesting as a band.

Ah, the useless drag of another day

such a great solo

Such a great opening line. A really idiosyncratic rock song, so glammy, it has like 9 hooks, pure ear candy. And the best solo Billy ever wrote.

re: Soundslike - i think it’s the difference between experiencing a band in real time & discovering the body of work after it’s been completed

The sequencing for this song is so perfect, too. Coming right after jellybelly and zero and right before BWBW almost disguises how much of a fuckin rocker it is. And steamrolling out of the solo into "if you're giving in" is genius.

FUCK YES HERE IS NO WHY

bless u #1 voter

I’ve never heard a more annoying cadence / forced syllable rhyme scheme whatever than “he pulls his hair down”

IT SHOULD BE
Somewhere
People tear down
Over a frowning smile

Whereas for me, the passage of time has removed all of the emotional invesment I had in the band as a young person to make the degradation post-Pisces even more stark. Which just leaves me trying to figure what people see now in something like "Perfect" to rank it so high.

― Soundslike, Sunday, 8 April 2018 02:54 (thirty-six minutes ago)

Huh, opposite for me (as someone else who hadn't revisited them since the 90s) - decided not to put anything from SD on the ballot as the removal of emotional investment etc makes me realise I can listen to My Bloody Valentine if I want layers of guitar etc, without those techniques smeared over what might as well be Rush/Aerosmith/etc songs (no slight on those bands, just not my cup of tea; had no idea of anything outside the Pumpkins as a small-town teen and didn't know classic rock radio stuff they drew on); "Perfect" and the like don't inspire that visceral queasiness.

https://i.imgur.com/e2HsQAo.jpg
15. Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
460 points, 19 votes
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

huh, no?

oh that was an xp to flappy’s weird feelings about “here is no why”’s lyrics

re: Soundslike - i think it’s the difference between experiencing a band in real time & discovering the body of work after it’s been completed

― flappy bird, Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:29 AM (four minutes ago)

That's what's odd about it to me, though. Experiencing it in real time, having a lot of my nascent juvenile identity tied up in the band, I had a lot "riding on" their continuing to be the greatest thing in the world, and thus a lot of reason to rationalize and overlook their mounting failings: becoming harsh vocally, overproduced, static, fractured, trying to reverse-engineer what might keep their alternative-rock star ascendant, becoming over-long, etc. etc. And believe me, I tried, and it took discovering a lot of other music and SP becoming really a shadow of themselves to finally give up and let go.

Whereas, I would think someone coming in with no "real-time" youthful investment in the band, and certainly little to know cultural (or at least fan-cultural) cachet involved (i.e. being a Pumpkins fan in '95 made you part of a community, such as it was--hardly the case 5, 10, 15, now 20 years later) would be more discriminating in their assessment of the band. No one *needs* hundreds of Smashing Pumpkins songs (not to mentioned all the demos, live bootlegs, sketches, etc. we all sought out like potential gems) if you're coming at them as classic rock or as a waning standard-bearer of the marketing ploy of "alternative rock". We only thought we did because we were wrapped up in it as it was happening, and feeling that ones investments in what's-happening-right-now are "important" really matters to self-identity for young people.

So why someone coming to it as a body of work would see it relativistically rather than judicially is confusing to me. They're a band with a great album, a good album, and another disc or so of great odds-and-sods--a tiny corner of a Micro SD card or, more likely, a fairly short playlist on somebody's streaming service of choice, these days. Judged on the basis of their best work, I could see them continuing to find new fans, albeit fewer and fewer as "rock music" fades in significance. But I would think presented as a monolith of a hundred hours of sound, all apparently equally good--they'd sink from public perception like a stone, or a fossil.

“porcelina” is the best song

xp "little to no," of course. Sorry, it's late and I've been up far too long.

ts: "the dilly dally / of my bright lit stay" vs "the jimmy jakes of consequence"

Porcelina tooooooooooo low. My #3

If you had to sum up in one song what the Pumpkins could do it’s Porcelina

And even then it’s still too narrow. They did so much with so much depth and intensity

I guess for me the equivalent would be like discovering OMD when I was 22. I was born after their first singles were released, and didn't hear them in the ether as a kid such that nostalgia played any factor. They had a long-tailed body of work by then. I discovered their first few albums and b-sides, and *loved* it--was amazed by it, couldn't believe it. Followed it to their later work--and was able to say, yeah, even when this isn't bad, it's never great. And ultimately saw that there had been a big fall-off, and their body of work was not a level listening field. I formed attachment to the music, but only to the music that stood the test of time and decontextualized listening.

is anyone saying the smashing pumpkins discography is totally level

_
re: Soundslike - i think it’s the difference between experiencing a band in real time & discovering the body of work after it’s been completed

― flappy bird, Sunday, April 8, 2018 3:29 AM (four minutes ago)
_


That's what's odd about it to me, though. Experiencing it in real time, having a lot of my nascent juvenile identity tied up in the band, I had a lot "riding on" their continuing to be the greatest thing in the world, and thus a lot of reason to rationalize and overlook their mounting failings: becoming harsh vocally, overproduced, static, fractured, trying to reverse-engineer what might keep their alternative-rock star ascendant, becoming over-long, etc. etc. And believe me, I tried, and it took discovering a lot of other music and SP becoming really a shadow of themselves to finally give up and let go.

Whereas, I would think someone coming in with no "real-time" youthful investment in the band, and certainly little to know cultural (or at least fan-cultural) cachet involved (i.e. being a Pumpkins fan in '95 made you part of a community, such as it was--hardly the case 5, 10, 15, now 20 years later) would be more discriminating in their assessment of the band. No one *needs* hundreds of Smashing Pumpkins songs (not to mentioned all the demos, live bootlegs, sketches, etc. we all sought out like potential gems) if you're coming at them as classic rock or as a waning standard-bearer of the marketing ploy of "alternative rock". We only thought we did because we were wrapped up in it as it was happening, and feeling that ones investments in what's-happening-right-now are "important" really matters to self-identity for young people.

So why someone coming to it as a body of work would see it relativistically rather than judicially is confusing to me. They're a band with a great album, a good album, and another disc or so of great odds-and-sods--a tiny corner of a Micro SD card or, more likely, a fairly short playlist on somebody's streaming service of choice, these days. Judged on the basis of their best work, I could see them continuing to find new fans, albeit fewer and fewer as "rock music" fades in significance. But I would think presented as a monolith of a hundred hours of sound, all apparently equally good--they'd sink from public perception like a stone, or a fossil.

I formed attachment to the music, but only to the music that stood the test of time and decontextualized listening.

― Soundslike, Sunday, 8 April 2018 3:55 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Maybe for some people that's Machina...

I mean, it's not for me, but this whole double-act with Turrican of performatively shaking your head at everyone who disagrees with what you know that everyone knows to be true isn't really getting us anywhere.

Also I'm gonna come back and right about a whole bunch of these placements, the last few stretches of the roll-out have been incredibly pleasing to me.

It's not as though the Adore and Machina fans here are leveling the entire catalogue. You don't seem them defending mk 2 albums with the same fervour. You can be a judicious listener and also happen to not think there was a drop-off after Pisces.

Ah, Porcelina, the epic song of drunken wretching. Ten shots in, you find yourself in the slipstream of thoughtless thoughts, without a care in this whole world, bent over the the porcelain bowl staring into its vast oceans, blacking out to the seashell hissing lullabies of the last flush.

Porcelina rules

https://i.imgur.com/komUP3z.jpg
14. Today
502 points, 18 votes
From: Siamese Dream, 1993

I mean, I love Adore but think "Stand Inside Your Love" is the only listenable thing on MACHINA.

Haven't listened to SIYL since 2003 when I first discovered the band (and loved them) and woah woah woah what a great track.

🍦🍦🍦

"Today" is a great song I never need to hear again.

their first great pop moment

i got into sd comparatively way late (bought mellon collie when i was 8, adore when i was 11, but my parents got me sd for my birthday when i was 13 along with gish and radiohead’s amnesiac) and i remember v vividly how i felt when i first heard “today.” the crush of the guitars is so perfect

Maybe for some people that's Machina...

I mean, it's not for me, but this whole double-act with Turrican of performatively shaking your head at everyone who disagrees with what you know that everyone knows to be true isn't really getting us anywhere.

― Tim F, Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:00 AM (two minutes ago)

t's not as though the Adore and Machina fans here are leveling the entire catalogue. You don't seem them defending mk 2 albums with the same fervour. You can be a judicious listener and also happen to not think there was a drop-off after Pisces.

― jmm, Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:02 AM (twenty-four seconds ago)

Fair enough. Would be interesting if this poll had also been done 17 years ago, after they first broke up--would be curious how it would've differed.

I guess in part the broader positive appraisal of the later work is just something I was unaware of all these years. The other band I super-fanned in real time back then, Radiohead--that's a band I understand has supporters all the way through, and debate about the merits of every album. Smashing Pumpkins I thought of as more of a closed book--not a bad thing to find out otherwise, just surprising.

"Today" is a great song I never need to hear again.

Usually my feeling with the entire Smashing Pumpkins catalogue.

But now with that poll I ain't so sure.

"Today" at #14 is the first track to rank that I had *lower* on my ballot, at #19. It's great, but probably the one track from SD that suffers for me from oversaturation.

I thought of SP as a closed book post-Machina. For me the strength of Machina was that it felt like you knew and they knew that they were sputtering out but they put everything they had left (some of which was just a kind of coasting on solid songwriting) into making sure it belonged in their catalogue. Like when a skipping stone's last jump goes longer than you expected.

was Zwan included in the balloting?

Zwan wasn't eligible though I kinda regret not allowing them because Mary Star of the Sea rules

Having spent years and years disliking MACHINA I'm actually in support of Corgan's crazy plan to "finish" the project when it finally gets reissued. It'd include remixing the whole thing, rerecording parts (including having guest vocalists perform songs as characters within the narrative arc), and expanding it to a proper double LP. There are good songs on there, just a lot of bad decisions, overproduction, and terrible mastering.

I thought of SP as a closed book post-Machina. For me the strength of Machina was that it felt like you knew and they knew that they were sputtering out but they put everything they had left (some of which was just a kind of coasting on solid songwriting) into making sure it belonged in their catalogue. Like when a skipping stone's last jump goes longer than you expected.

― Fetchboy, Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:15 AM (thirty-one seconds ago)

I remember at the time hearing 'Machina II' being described with that kind of feeling, "one last hurrah for old time's sake". I've tried listening a few times since then and it's more charming with flashes of 'Zero EP' stripped-down-rock-ness, which I totally get as an antidote to the polish and flatness of 'Machina'. But it's hard to relate to the assessment re: 'Machina', though that's what I wanted it to be at the time, because it feels like both SP-by-numbers and a slightly desperate bid for relevance in what was quickly becoming an irrelevant format--it didn't and doesn't sound to me like an album with much emotional investment (which I can grant 'Adore,' though I don't care for the results) nor like a record where anyone was having any fun.

https://i.imgur.com/qnjAOn2.jpg
13. Galapogos
518 points, 18 votes
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

https://i.imgur.com/Zkl343p.jpg
13. Rocket
518 points, 19 votes, 2 #1 votes
From: Siamese Dream, 1993

Voted for the last three

"Galapogos" meant everything to me when I was 14-15 and it still sounds great. No small feat.

I didn't really know Galapogos was such a favourite but it's one of mine so it's great to see it so high. The little lick after the second chorus is so great and the way the bridge comes in. Such a pretty song