Bang Bang You're Dead... POLL In Your Head - ILM Artist Poll #87 - SMASHING PUMPKINS - Results

Having spent years and years disliking MACHINA I'm actually in support of Corgan's crazy plan to "finish" the project when it finally gets reissued. It'd include remixing the whole thing, rerecording parts (including having guest vocalists perform songs as characters within the narrative arc), and expanding it to a proper double LP. There are good songs on there, just a lot of bad decisions, overproduction, and terrible mastering.

I thought of SP as a closed book post-Machina. For me the strength of Machina was that it felt like you knew and they knew that they were sputtering out but they put everything they had left (some of which was just a kind of coasting on solid songwriting) into making sure it belonged in their catalogue. Like when a skipping stone's last jump goes longer than you expected.

― Fetchboy, Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:15 AM (thirty-one seconds ago)

I remember at the time hearing 'Machina II' being described with that kind of feeling, "one last hurrah for old time's sake". I've tried listening a few times since then and it's more charming with flashes of 'Zero EP' stripped-down-rock-ness, which I totally get as an antidote to the polish and flatness of 'Machina'. But it's hard to relate to the assessment re: 'Machina', though that's what I wanted it to be at the time, because it feels like both SP-by-numbers and a slightly desperate bid for relevance in what was quickly becoming an irrelevant format--it didn't and doesn't sound to me like an album with much emotional investment (which I can grant 'Adore,' though I don't care for the results) nor like a record where anyone was having any fun.

https://i.imgur.com/qnjAOn2.jpg
13. Galapogos
518 points, 18 votes
From: Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness, 1995

https://i.imgur.com/Zkl343p.jpg
13. Rocket
518 points, 19 votes, 2 #1 votes
From: Siamese Dream, 1993

Voted for the last three

"Galapogos" meant everything to me when I was 14-15 and it still sounds great. No small feat.

I didn't really know Galapogos was such a favourite but it's one of mine so it's great to see it so high. The little lick after the second chorus is so great and the way the bridge comes in. Such a pretty song

Rocket could have been another #1. One of their most infectious songs and has the most perfect climax and finish.

"Galapogos" meant everything to me when I was 14-15 and it still sounds great. No small feat.

― Simon H., Sunday, April 8, 2018 4:35 AM (one minute ago)

I'd say basically exactly the same thing about "Rocket" : )

Feels like "Rocket" was the forgotten single at the time, but it's probably my favorite of them.

I remember the exact moment this obsession started: putting on mellon collie then shoveling snow for what felt like an hour & coming in just as the guitars burst in Galapagos is the moment I sank into this sick wormhole of fandom.

I'll put 'MCIS/Adore/Machina' relative to the early work higher than 'Episode I/Episode II/Episode III' relative to the originals, and that's all I can give them, re: pop-culture things that disabused me of my childhood/teenagehood as a necessary growing pain ; )

https://i.imgur.com/CYEBnYz.jpg
11. Set the Ray to Jerry
520 points, 18 votes
From: 1979 EP and The Aeroplane Flies High, 1996

last one for now, sorry for this section running a bit late

holy shit what a great stretch

nothing sounds quite like “jerry” imo

voted for this one too, one of my very favorites

one of the best Aeroplane tracks and should have been on the album (the whole band loved it but Flood didn't so Billy was convinced to leave it off) but I never understood why it was such a fan favourite.

as far as similar sounds go I feel like Bloc Party must have been huge fans of it, there's a few tracks like Tulips that have a pretty similar feeling.

i hope tomorrow's roll out doesn't start as early, for selfish reasons i'm hoping for a mid-day time slot.

replacing In the Arms of Sleep with Set the Ray Jerry is the only MCIS track/sequence swap I can get behind.

Somewhere in "Set the Ray to Jerry" and "Cherry" and the 'Zero EP' b-sides, you can feel an alternate history of Smashing Pumpkins where they decided to go slinky and direct and (relatively) low-key, rather than deciding to do a kitchen-sink 'White Album' was the next Preordained Step in the Stairway to Rock Canon Heaven. It could've been great. But at least we have the cast-off possibilities.

I only rated "Jerry" (at #8), "Cherry" (at #20) and "Mouths of Babes" (at #22) from the MCIS era, and I suspect they all pre-date the MCIS era, really.

Set the Ray to Jerry I think was written during the Gish tour?

1992 demo of Set the Ray rules, if you've ever wanted a heavy version of Set the Ray in your life (yes obv)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbvT-kUL8Po

xp yes

It's funny--it's late and my wife is sleeping and I don't have headphones at hand, so I can't listen to that--but I feel like I can absolutely SD-ify "Jerry" in my head as a heavy track, and it could've been great. But I think it's actually remarkable that instead they went all restraint and tension and implied-rock through misty almost-jazzy feints and hints. It's something they didn't really do much, or at least not without building it up beyond restraint at some point in a song. It makes me want to listen to the few MCIS tracks that I generally like (production/approach aside), and "Jerry-fy" them in my head to imagine that alternate history more vividly. . .

Like the Knife doing a record updating old tracks to their last sound. . . Maybe we can convince Billy that path back to relevance is to tackle MCIS/Adore-era tracks and set their rays to Jerry.

Porcelina rules

Galapagos rules

Rocket was my #1

I shall be free

I love quiet Pumpkins but Jerry does nothing for me, I wonder why.

(also I thought Porcelina was a lock for #1 so what do I know)

may blather more in the morning but mainly I'm stoked to see Galapagos this high. feels like a song every listener must have had their own individual discovery moment with, holy shit this bridge! amazing that this record has room for this and for "porcelina" - a clear argument for why it has to be a double - and then they put them almost back to back. gutsy.

You're not alone re:Jerry, Matthew.

"Obscured" was my #2!

I am having to relisten to "Galapogos" right now to remember how it goes. I think I always skipped this one! It is really pretty, though. Apparently my individual discovery moment is right now.

top 10 prediction:

1. 1979
2. Mayonaise
3. Soma
4. Drown
5. Rhinoceros
6. Cherub Rock
7. Hummer
8. Thirty-Three
9. Thru the Eyes of Ruby
10. Starla

No offense to Rhinoceros, but I have a hard time seeing it place and Daydream not.

this version of Daydream is so good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZZjdStK9ho

Rocket was my #1. There are very few SP lyrics that I would describe as "inspiring", but this is the best of them, an almost Springsteen-like dream of escape (or burning out and fading away, but I tend to look at the positive, more life-affirming interpretation).

And yes, fantastic stretch from 20-11, with the exception of "Porcelina" which is Billy at his proggy worst. Not a terrible song, but one I usually don't have the patience for.

how the... what... i just found this... billy wrote a song for some band called taproot in the mid 00s? this video was uploaded in 2006. wtf it's great & why would he give it to someone else

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPP0ebGrNiM

I didn't really know Galapogos was such a favourite but it's one of mine so it's great to see it so high

same here! *high five* to everyone for the latest stretch. it's making for an excellent playlist.
(but i don't like 'today' and never have)

'stand inside your love' is fantastic musically but is so completely empty lyrically. even still it stands as the last thing they did that i flat out love. i feel like such a dummy for not listening to more pisces iscariot before throwing my ballot together. i had most of the pumpkins' cds back in the day but somehow never picked it up, and for some reason to this day i often forget it's there. 'obscured' is an incredible song that i would have put high up on my ballot had i listened to it anytime recently.

Im not a huge fan of Porcelina but it has a bit of a Future Days vibe imo

Cherub Rock was like #4 in the 90s singles poll, so I had expected that to be #2 behind 1979, but admittedly that was almost a wholly different message board back then

There's no way Rhinoceros doesnt make it

sweet line in porcelina: "In my mind I'm every one of you"

the climax of galapogos speaks so directly to the all or nothing life or death outlook of the teenage heart

Too late to turn to turn back now
I'm running out of sound
And I am changing, changing
And if we died right now

Great run of songs here, I was the #1 voter for Stand Inside Your Love, remember hearing that on Radio 1's Evening Session and being blown away. Glad to see so much love for Here Is No Why and Galapogos - Galapogos always takes me right back to the first time I listened to Mellon Collie in full.

I have to confess that I wasn't actually a Pumpkins superfan in the '90s - I loved the stuff I knew but due to limited funds only owned MCIS and I think a taped copy of SD at some point later on. I bought the CDs of Gish, SD and Machina around 2002/03 and then everything else I discovered through downloading a few years after that so large chunks of the discography still feel relatively new to me.

Daydream is the Loveless Unplugged missing link between MBV and SP.

Huh, I guess I spoke too soon - 'Perfect', 'Obscured' (I like it, but really!?), 'Porcelina', 'Today' and especially 'Galapagos' all far too high.

Would it improve "Obscured" to know that it's a single shape (Cmaj with a G in the bass) moved up and down the fretboard?

Soundslike: it surprised me a bit too when I first realized how important Adore was to a lot of people who were about five years younger than me (us?). I had an ex-gf who loved Machina and Adore, didn't listen to the pre-MCIS material, and thought of Gish as worthless. I think MCIS sold about twice (?) as many copies as SD so I definitely don't think there's a popular consensus on the Vig-era material being superior (even though it's what I prefer too). I've actually been pleasantly surprised to see it doing as well as it is here. I was expecting that there might be more of a slant towards the later mk 1 material.

Huh, opposite for me (as someone else who hadn't revisited them since the 90s) - decided not to put anything from SD on the ballot as the removal of emotional investment etc makes me realise I can listen to My Bloody Valentine if I want layers of guitar etc, without those techniques smeared over what might as well be Rush/Aerosmith/etc songs
― etc, Saturday, April 7, 2018 10:44 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I get that it's what a lot of indie fans dislike about it but this is exactly what makes SD so great for me; obv, if you don't like Rush and Aerosmith, ymmv. I like MBV a lot but, really, they gave you those techniques smeared over what might as well be idk Pastels songs or something, which isn't an inherently better fit imo. Of course, a lot of the time, I want to hear those kinds of guitar sounds without songs at all and then I listen to Fennesz.

I had an ex-gf who loved Machina and Adore, didn't listen to the pre-MCIS material, and thought of Gish as worthless

(Before someone asks, this wasn't why we broke up.)

Been lurking for this poll, some crazy nostalgia here. I thought about contributing some votes when I saw it on the board, but couldn't really bring myself to - SP are so bracketed for me with some of my most emotionally intense teenage years, and a lot of the music pretty much captures that sense of overblown melodrama, feels awkward even listening back to it.

I did just want to just echo Soundslike's posts though. Couldn't have put it better myself in terms of the sense of diminishing returns at the time - for me, Adore was the turning point where ultimately we parted ways. Although not right away, there was a period of "denial", not only due to the significance and attention I'd pay to any CD in my small collection at the time, but also the emotional/subjective investments of being a totally dedicated fan, a true believer.

Wow, all night long? Holy crap. I've got a busy Sunday ahead of me. Hope I don't miss out on the top 10.

Good morning, catching up here...GALAPAGOS?!? My people, you are!

Adding to my growing list of embarrassments about this poll: somehow, I forgot to vote for "Perfect".