when I started listening to Zappa I found Hot Rats to be one of the more accessible albums mainly because it has no Frank Zappa vocals or comedy monologues on it
― soref, Thursday, 12 April 2018 13:36 (six years ago) link
A common reason given for liking certain Zappa albums. Personally, I find those the instrumental jazz-rock of Zappa dull as ditchwater.
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 April 2018 13:38 (six years ago) link
those instrumental jazz-rock albums. Jesus, my typing.
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 April 2018 13:39 (six years ago) link
Hot Rats has the massive advantage of Beefheart singing on the only track w/ lyrics.
― Ward Fowler, Thursday, 12 April 2018 13:43 (six years ago) link
yea that was kind of my experience with him too. the first one I got was Sheik Yerbouti (it was the only one the store had) and when "Broken Hearts are For Assholes" came on my jaw hit the floor. like, seriously, this is the guy who a bunch of hardcore prog-heads say is the greatest ever? that wasn't actually a turn-off, I thought it was kinda fascinating, even though I really wished that the dude who was often praised for his sense of humor was actually *funny* and not just crass. he's like a middle schooler who thinks "put it in your ASS!!!" is the funniest thing ever.
later I came to realize that this was basically his entire shtick. as though the pinnacle of artistic achievement was drawing a big ol' dick on the Mona Lisa. the early days were full of whining about "awww they won't let me say FUCK on a record!" and then when his style of crassness was no longer considered "shocking" (was it back then?) he became even more bitter and desperate. the last straw for me was "Jumbo Go Away" on You Are What You Is (which I'd heard was his best 80's record), even my 17-year old idiot edgelord self thought it was too needlessly cruel and hateful. it singlehandedly made me afraid of getting old.
I guess this is a bit OT
― frogbs, Thursday, 12 April 2018 13:43 (six years ago) link
It feels to me like maybe he doesn’t actually like rock ’n’ roll, and is only using it strategically/sarcastically (but maybe that’s not accurate or fair).
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Thursday, 12 April 2018 13:43 (six years ago) link
nah he loves rock n roll. listen to Crusin With Ruben and the Jets.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:02 (six years ago) link
Imagos post was a joke right
― Droni Mitchell (Ross), Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:14 (six years ago) link
;)
Zappa is weird and freaky in an incredibly irritating way. He's obviously a cunt - fine - but his music is just the worst kind of fucking around. It has a really vile energy. Whenever Cardiacs get compared to him it makes me literally puke. I'm puking right now
Also I've thought of another example, kind of! The Mars Volta's album Frances The Mute is properly amazing right up until the half-hour closing track, of which maybe eight minutes are required
― imago, Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:18 (six years ago) link
if you don't like Bike, you hate life
― brand new universal harvester (dog latin), Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:28 (six years ago) link
I don't know why, I call him Gerald
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:29 (six years ago) link
Bike is life, alright!
― ✖✖✖ (Moka), Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:30 (six years ago) link
― imago, Thursday, April 12, 2018 7:18 AM (eleven minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
ok sure but like... idk, the hook for "cassandra gemini" is the best hook of their discography. when they get back around to it after 15 minutes of whatever it's so awesome that i don't care how long it is
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:31 (six years ago) link
That's fair
― imago, Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:33 (six years ago) link
OK listening to CG and it hasn't gotten dull yet after like 15 minutes, maybe I've misjudged it
― imago, Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:47 (six years ago) link
Oh no wait here's the bit they should have cut haha
― imago, Thursday, 12 April 2018 14:48 (six years ago) link
I'm 2/3 into this, and not hating it! He clearly does have a real affinity for '50s R'n'R and doo-wop.
I feel like I'd rather listen to "the real thing" -- or the Lou Reed songs where he goes deep into those styles and creates something new -- than this album, which feels like sort of a "genre exercise"; but I concede it's my first time thru and I'm just listening on the computer.
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Thursday, 12 April 2018 17:33 (six years ago) link
Cruising is such an anomaly in his catalogue - it's weirdly earnest, you don't get the sense he's just mocking it the way you do with all those hard-rock 70s records. He never did another record quite like it.
― frogbs, Thursday, 12 April 2018 17:53 (six years ago) link
Weasels ripped my flesh is wonderful morris
― Droni Mitchell (Ross), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:13 (six years ago) link
Check out directly from my heart to you
― Droni Mitchell (Ross), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:14 (six years ago) link
Thanks, will dial that up next!
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:14 (six years ago) link
Why are you bothering with Zappa, so much better stuff to listen to out there? There is quite a bit of mocking going on on "Cruising With Ruben & the Jets" btw.
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:16 (six years ago) link
Though the main problem with "Cruising With Ruben & the Jets" is it sounds like Zappa spent about 5 minutes on the arrangements and 30 minutes on the recording.
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:18 (six years ago) link
Eh, I've got Spotify and nothing but time while I work...
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:22 (six years ago) link
There is quite a bit of mocking going on on "Cruising With Ruben & the Jets" btw
it was made when all the serious rock bands were doing "back to the basics" and ripping off blues records. those are the targets of the mockery, not the doo wop itself (which is a style he has played his entire career)
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:29 (six years ago) link
anyways theres a lot of mockery in rock. Bob Dylan's entire career is built on sneering at conventions.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:31 (six years ago) link
That's a bizarre theory, I must say. The lyrics of doo wop songs are definitely mocked and played for laughs by Zappa. Not all of the album is even doo wop anyway!
― Buff Jeckley (Tom D.), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:38 (six years ago) link
sure like usual there are many layers to the satire. but i don't think "doo wop music/50s rock is stupid" itself was one of the intend takes. like he hates lovey dovey lyrics but loves the music.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 12 April 2018 18:57 (six years ago) link
well yeah
the fact that you have to unwrap it a bit to figure out what he's making fun is what makes it unique. usually Frank ain't so subtle. (though lol @ Cruising with Ruben & the Jets being "subtle")
― frogbs, Thursday, 12 April 2018 19:02 (six years ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv6AiaaOOnY
i like "Charva", an early one he did in 1963. same wheelhouse but more Ramones (via singing about sniffing glue)
you can mock something that you like, even have affection for. see also MST3K
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 12 April 2018 19:08 (six years ago) link
Well, I listened to Weasels... I dug the track "Get a Little" (it's too short, in fact!) -- both the lead gtr and bassline are very to my taste. The rest of the LP seems too noodly / chord-changey / listener-antagonistic to jell w/me.
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Thursday, 12 April 2018 19:14 (six years ago) link
"Get a Little" reminds me of the stuff on Plays That Good Old Rock And Roll, the 2002 album my main man Neil Hagerty (& crew)...
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Thursday, 12 April 2018 19:16 (six years ago) link
Weasels gets pretty skronky. It has some good stuff tho.
― No energy, only great chaos (Dan Peterson), Thursday, 12 April 2018 19:28 (six years ago) link
I tried and tried with Zappa but he's just fucking terrible
― you're my luger not my rifle (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 12 April 2018 20:43 (six years ago) link
otm
― obnoxious pun (ultros ultros-ghali), Thursday, 12 April 2018 20:43 (six years ago) link
decided to relisten to "Jumbo Go Away" just to see if it's as vile as I remember. it's actually much worse, though there is a crazy and brilliant middle section that sounds like the Residents on steroids. then afterwards "Jumbo better get back, or your eye will get black, once I give you a smack", filled by a minute of crying noises. anyway, long story short, I hate Frank Zappa now
― frogbs, Thursday, 12 April 2018 20:53 (six years ago) link
Hard to think of a major figure who had such little sense of taste as to how to present his talent attractively
There's legends who alienate and rub fans the wrong way but it's hardly ever done as cheaply and as pointlessly
― Master of Treacle, Thursday, 12 April 2018 21:03 (six years ago) link
A Ghost is Born shouldn't end with the Late Greats right after the great Less Than You Think, which was the perfect ending.
― Van Horn Street, Thursday, 12 April 2018 21:05 (six years ago) link
BIKE IS FUCKING DOPE
― brimstead, Thursday, 12 April 2018 21:16 (six years ago) link
I thought I was going to have to vouch hard for “Cassandra Gemini”, but as it is I just want to make the case that an 8-minute funereal jam session is a great final indulgence for a song that’s managed to maintain its energy so well for so long, esp. (as mentioned) when the chorus comes soaring back one last time at the end.
― You're all losing so many points on your progress bars (Champiness), Thursday, 12 April 2018 22:27 (six years ago) link
"shut up and play your guitar" is the other zappa album i like, just 3 CDs of guitar solos
― brimstead, Thursday, 12 April 2018 22:33 (six years ago) link
Yeah that's one of the ones I owned once. Thought I would dig it! Maybe I'll try dipping back in.
― absorbed carol channing's powers & psyche (morrisp), Thursday, 12 April 2018 22:46 (six years ago) link
probably doesn't count as it's a hidden track but "Hit to Death in the Future Head" has a nearly 30 minute harsh noise loop as a final track. i've never been able to listen to this great album all the way through.
― Hazy Maze Cave (Adam Bruneau), Thursday, 12 April 2018 23:28 (six years ago) link
my patience with songwriters who are either unable or unwilling to write a love song grows shorter as i grow older
― ziggy the ginhead (rushomancy), Friday, 13 April 2018 00:23 (six years ago) link