the day after the deadline: can the union survive brexit and other deep questions

Could you imagine being a Labour voter of 2nd gen Caribbean/Asian origins, and listening to that cunt eulogising Powell on the radio and him almost fucking tearing up - it's just so fucking emotional for him.

I saw this funny clip of some Irish immigrant guy in the early 60's saying "as an immigrant population here, we'd just be playing a card against ourselves by being racist toward Caribbean immigrants". My dad never got that memo!

There's probably a substantial core of Hard Brexiters who value and prioritise Commonwealth immigration over post-enlargement EU immigration

They might well value Indian GPs and the occasional Nigerian barrister, I wonder what they would think of the people who would be most likely to come, most of whom would come from Muslim majority countries like Bangladesh and Pakistan.

Lots of Pakistani war criminal doctors and academics who played an active part in the '71 genocide in Bangladesh ended up getting safe haven in the UK. Which immigrants are more safer than others is a funny old game, well not really - it's usually connected to wealth.

if we're taking enoch powell's views seriously how about his opposition to nuclear weapons

that's the kind of offensive outdated nonsense that we ought to ignore

Amber "no Roswell" Rudd

:-)

seen a few ppl touting the fact that lammy voted for the 2002 nationality, immigration and asylum bill as evidence of his corrupted, hypocritical nature &c. I've no interest in the furious purism of the margins but it's interesting how things and people have changed, makes me wonder what the discussion was like then

Do these how they vote sites explain which bills were subject to a three line whip? I think his record on opposing gentrification is weak as well. He seems ok at times does Lammy, is good at the emotive oratory side of the game, but ultimately a professional politician, no less imo. But loads of MP's have ropy voting records. I heard someone pointing out to Gardiner the other day that he voted for Iraq. I suppose it just highlights how uniquely consistent MP's like Corbyn + McDonnell are so completely rare.

Yes, Lammy blows hot and cold, otm about his being good at emotive oratory, less convincing in other areas.

see the remainer lot (David Allen Green) tying this to Brexit

We are the remainer lot, you turnip.

Its not the same issue, genius.

Are we? Haven't seen much support for a second referendum around here. xpost

Chris Williamson has appeared on RT now. This has to be the last straw and the fucking idiot needs sacking immediately.

It's the same people doing the same things for the same reasons. It's an indication that those of us who thought we were coming to somewhere we could set up home, will need to be looking over our shoulders for the foreseeable. And it's a hilarious reminder, at the start of the meeting of the Commonwealth Heads of State, that this government, and particularly the PM and former Home Secretary, don't give a shite about the position of the Commonwealth except also they will be our best trading partners.

I mean, if there's a particular article that seems bogus, throw it up here - all the comparisons / connections I've seen were spot-on.

Are we? Haven't seen much support for a second referendum around here. xpost

I don't always pay total attention, but "this will be a fucking disaster" seems to be a popular opinion here. I don't know that we all need the same solution to agree that.

Otherwise someone else might change it for you for the first time since 2015 and you get locked out. Annoying isn't it? Yes you may be paid a lot more than them but sometimes basic logic doesn't follow the money, it's priceless

— The Account Formerly Known As Wetherspoons (@jdwtwats) April 17, 2018

If there were any Cameron 15/Remain 16/Labour 17 voters who were wavering about Labour after the events of the past few weeks, the PM's handling of this has probably driven them pretty firmly away from the Tories for the foreseeable future.

Its not the same issue, genius.

The entire clusterfuck and the Hostile Environment policies that led to it are all part of the same snowballing anti-immigration sentiment that May is entirely in support of and was pretty much the #1 reason for Brexit (that and mythical sums of money for the NHS). Cameron was quite happy to stoke this shit up when it suited him as well. They can't be separated, especially as things are very likely get worse after Brexit.

I don't have trouble believing that the mentality that lead to brexit is the same one at issue here but I do think it's worth pointing out that the tories would be doing this even if brexit hadn't happened - and that in fact Theresa May had already been doing it at the Home Office.

I don't always pay total attention, but "this will be a fucking disaster" seems to be a popular opinion here. I don't know that we all need the same solution to agree that.

Yeah I think everyone agrees that it's a shambles and I'd wager most here voted against it (I couldn't, of course, being a EU citizen), but "remainer" at this juncture to me feels like it's referring specifically to people who are trying to stop brexit from happening and believe the process can be reversed - and maybe I'm projecting but it feels to me like most ppl on this thread believe that ship has sailed.

2nd Referendum, 2nd home, Season 2 of The Wire, 2nd amendment - all bad imo.

Season 2 of The Wire

mods pls delete this

challop hour!

puppyp hour

I'm with gazarra, season two of the Wire is unfairly maligned.

did any of you ever have a dope smoking sibling whose constant proselytising for a bad overrated US tv series, sort of helped to come to the conclusion that it is somewhat overrated? I'll stfu, this isn't as bad as saying that Beethoven's 7th is bad music. Might just get away with it!

They can't be separated, especially as things are very likely get worse after Brexit.

This issue is about deportations of people that have resided here for decades. DAG's tweets are cynically linking Home Office behaviour post-hostile environments - policies put in place before the Brexit ref - to the separation of the UK from the European union. Remainer lot mostly don't care about the specifics of the issue that blew up yesterday.

Putting it another way - if we stopped Brexit tomorrow only the immediate threats toward European migrants would stop. Charging people to use the NHS who can't show they have papers to be here would go on.

The separation of the UK from the European Union is also based (in part) on policies put in place before the Brexit ref - the same policies.

Putting it another way - if we stopped Brexit tomorrow only the immediate threats toward European migrants would stop. Charging people to use the NHS who can't show they have papers to be here would go on.

Yes, I agree completely. And?

Remainer lot mostly don't care about the specifics of the issue that blew up yesterday.

Yer man Greene is posting a lot about it for someone who doesn't care - and which tweet was it that's cynically linking the two, just for clarity?

Wait no I found it!

Many will say (and have no doubt already replied to this thread saying) that a sensible and rational UK government, acting in public interest, would not do Brexit.

But the issue is not the ultimate principle, but basic competence.

This is not how Brexit should be done.

/ends

— David Allen Green (@davidallengreen) April 17, 2018

Ah no hang on

These policies were put in place before Brexit but the referendum result was taken by the government as carte blanche to continue and expand them. Ever more draconian measures on migration (and perhaps repatriation in some cases) are one of the main reasons the authoritarian right wanted Brexit so much in the first place.

Agreed that stopping Brexit in and of itself wouldn't make any difference to these cases. However, it does suggest that May and her government have STILL not learned the lessons about why they lost their majority last year.

I am happy to find some common ground, such as the immediate immolation of those responsible for this shit:

“Sometimes the Passport Office would call up, and people would say: ‘I’ll look in the basement,’” the ex-employee said.

After the destruction of the archive, when an individual requested confirmation of an arrival date, staff had to reply stating there was no record of it.

From around 2013 onwards, he said, the number of requests from people from the Caribbean began to increase.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/17/home-office-destroyed-windrush-landing-cards-says-ex-staffer

Those DAG tweets...christ really how can you talk about competence ffs? The Home Office are being thoroughly competent in carrying out Tory policy.

The "But." really sticks in - they are being competent. People are being deported, or denied treatment. Whatever. Its competence.

And dealing with long-term issues is a nonsense. People aren't going to wait. The politics and people behind this have to be fought against and marginalised.

Putting aside, @davidallengreen, the kind of distasteful naked opportunism to use this story to fixate once more on Brexit, I’m not sure you realise that what is happening is a direct result of govt trying to “fix” the Home Office with speedy deportations.

— Congolesa “Fire @Jack” Rice (@judeinlondon2) April 17, 2018

fuuuck

t may home secretary when windrush landing cards destroyed

This ought to be big and mean she is really in the shit now, but that just isn't the way shit goes down these days, she almost seems indestructible at times.

... but but, Corbyn, anti-Semitic mural etc.

MPs have voted 317-256 in favour of a Labour motion to consider Parliament's rights to approve military action by British forces overseas

Source? Reading the government won the vote on the guardian.

sky news

No, that's wrong and you should delete this tweet. MPs voted 317-256 to state that Parliament had fully considered their rights to approve military action. Labour whipped their MPs AGAINST this (effectively to say that it hadn't considered those rights fully), but lost 317-256.

— Oliver Cooper (@OliverCooper) April 17, 2018

ah

You can see the division list here: https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Download?divisionId=404

Corbyn's motion is "That this House has considered Parliament’s rights in relation to the approval of military action by British Forces overseas." - I'm guessing that it was raised to be voted against?

Yeah the motion is weirdly worded (doubt they expected to win that vote) but it basically means that parliament should get a vote on any military intervention, and that the motion is questioning if this will be required for future action. Labour voting no means they don’t think that due parliamentary scrutiny is being applied. Sorry if unclear, very tired. I don’t see any labour MPs who voted with the government but there are a number of abstentions.

t may home secretary when windrush landing cards destroyed

this makes me sad not just for the obvious current reasons but also with my libraries/archives/museums hat on, destroying records of a significant historical event

(wonder what GDPR means for records like this and all the other official records that family history buffs get v into chasing down. I suppose a govt can get exemptions for most data but church registers etc? this is all hugely off-topic and not something I've thought about for more than 2 seconds btw)

Those DAG tweets...christ really how can you talk about competence ffs? The Home Office are being thoroughly competent in carrying out Tory policy

not to be all Cap'n Save-a-DAG but he did tweet earlier 'The "Windrush affair" is not what happens when a policy works badly, but when a bad policy works' so... yes?

this isn't as bad as saying that Beethoven's 7th is bad music. Might just get away with it!

― calzino, Tuesday, 17 April 2018 13:50 (four hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Lol. Now look I never said this. Quite the opposite in fact. Anyway, back to your reg scheduled

sorry for misrepresenting your post!

https://theukbulletin.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Screen-Shot-2018-04-17-at-17.56.35.png

angry lol

One year ago today. pic.twitter.com/US3V8hOmHw

— Jim Waterson (@jimwaterson) April 18, 2018