North Korea

trump's done it again lads, credit where credit's due

this strikes me as fishy, what game is being played here? are we actually going to have donald trump end the korean war

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/19/world/asia/north-korea-american-troops-withdrawal-trump.html

i genuinely can't think of anything funnier than donald trump ending the korean war and getting a nobel peace prize as he's getting impeached for sex crimes and i hope it happens

— chris hooks (@cd_hooks) April 19, 2018

are we actually going to have donald trump end the korean war

the cold war ended during George HW Bush's tenure, but he sure as hell wasn't the reason it ended when it did

It could absolutely be the case that the entire Korean peninsula was so horrified by the Trump admin's gross incompetence on this matter that they felt they needed to fast-track the peace process.

that's what I think

makes sense xp

The Trump years may well end up validating those people who cheer for the worst possible outcome because it's the only way to bring about real change, and thats a horrifying thought.

don't worry he'll say something to fuck it up in the next 48 hours

A 9.0 earthquake or a Category 5 hurricane always bring about real change. What I want is positive change.

It could absolutely be the case that the entire Korean peninsula was so horrified by the Trump admin's gross incompetence on this matter that they felt they needed to fast-track the peace process.

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, April 19, 2018 3:03 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

that's what I think

― sleeve, Thursday, April 19, 2018 3:04 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

makes sense xp

― global tetrahedron

thing is, a trump supporter would replace "gross incompetence" with "American courage" and believe that trump's unpredictability and impulsive decisionmaking were the things that drove the change (that is, if a peace deal is struck in the first place)

It would validate idiots of all stripes

Yep, just like Reagan's military spending forced the Soviet Union to collapse, which is still the official story for righties.

last three posts totally otm

nah it's Trump's "Master Persuasion"...he knew what he was doing all along. it's you rubes, who are the stupid ones.

US-NK summit has a good chance of going badly (if it happens) given that each of the parties involved probably have diffferent understandings of what “denuclearize” means.

but imagine a world where trump is tweeting about what a fantastic man kim jong un is, how strong and so very smart, open to trade deals, etc

if that bizarro world also involved really peace then, well fuck, at least something positive has happened in the world, i will take it along with the rightwing bullshit that comes along with it

let's not just aim for peace. let's aim for really peace.

4/20

'juche philosophy is just terrific folks, just among the greatest, and something we're all gonna see more and more'

I'm as against giving Trump a win as anyone, but I've always hoped he'd fall ass-backwards into doing something positive and worthwhile while he otherwise shits up our democracy. If this winds up being that thing, I'll take it.

The Trump years may well end up validating those people who cheer for the worst possible outcome because it's the only way to bring about real change, and thats a horrifying thought.

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, April 19, 2018 3:13 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

xxxp

This isn't really a process forced to the front because of Trump. Moon and his election campaign were pretty explicit in their goal of easing up tensions with NK prior to his win, and the way to do it. There have been many diplomatic wins for the new SK government leading up to this. Their 'nu sunshine policy' was obviously what was needed after several hawkisk, hard line SK presidents. Trump's tantrumps have threatened to derail this plan, if anything, but forums like the Olympic Games were fortuitously timed to deflect that.

This isn't really a process forced to the front because of Trump.

i mean, obviously

it'll be a "win" for trump because he'll claim it, not because he had anything to do with it

See also: anything that could be perceived as a success throughout Trump's adult life.

yea I've heard a lot of right wing types claiming he "solved" North Korea but I honestly have no idea what he did, outside of threatening to nuke them over Twitter

OTOH to be fair to Trump (God knows why) if the situation had gotten worse you know he would have gotten the blame.

This isn't really a process forced to the front because of Trump.
i mean, obviously

it'll be a "win" for trump because he'll claim it, not because he had anything to do with it

motherfucker took credit for the olympics for no reason

Mike Pence should get the credit. He boldly sat in the VIP area at the Olympics and didn’t speak to Kim Jong Un’s sister. It was a real turning point. At that point the world knew that America meant business

The tenure of President Pence will be defined by a string of history-making instances of sitting in a room with one important woman after another without ever acknowledging their presence.

Sorry if this isn't the thread for it, but a friend of mine wrote this (cover!) piece on Pence, his church, and how exactly evangelical Christians justify the whole "we're a persecuted minority" thing to themselves, and I think it's really good: https://harpers.org/archive/2018/05/exiled/

oops actually meant to post that on the U.S. politics thread, sorry

if rapprochement does come to pass (btwn N&SK and/or the US) i don't think that'll be incidental to trump being president. idk if it'll be because of his bluster. i don't get the impression un has been cowered into dealing. if anything it kinda seems like the opposite - that he feels relatively secure and maybe has a kindred spirit in trump. idk i mean they're both close w/ dennis rodman so maybe they're all gonna bro down.

4 more years if this actually happens

or Pence

if this actually happens while he's president i really think he'll win again

“Does anyone, on either side of the political aisle, actually think that the DPRK would give up its nuclear capability without receiving in exchange commitments that the US would not be willing to give?

If the answer is "no" — what happens when this (inevitably) becomes clear?” @wellerstein Alex Wellerstein

I think we really have no idea what NK would accept or what Trump admin would agree to. What about support for unity gov some kind of pseudo constitutional monarchy and withdraw all American troops? If they got the pro reconciliation SK admin on board? Why not?

Kim has never looked comfortable in the role. I wonder if he's been secretly looking for a way out for years.

Xpost we have many statements by the US administration and DPRK. The former has said recognizing a new nuclear state was an impossibility ( Bolton once stated his ideal for the summit would be simply issuing this ultimatum) whereas the latter has made possession of the weapons and technology central to their regime’s sense of identity domestically and how they are viewed internationally.

Kim Jong Un's biggest obstacle to executing a fundamental shift of policy toward ROK and the USA would be getting his military leadership behind him. If they came along, he could pivot instantly. If they united against him, there'd be no chance of striking a deal.

KJ Un is fluent in English, thanks to years in Switzerland schools. He's no less aware of Trump's fundamental issues as a narcissist than we are.

He's offered to end testing. That, and some praise directed at T are all it will take to remove some sanctions. No peace process, no unification, and nothing that threatens the NK elites. Just theater.

don't worry, trump is aware of the history with all of these issues. he definitely knows that NK can be trusted to keep any promises they make

"Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd of Fake News NBC just stated that we have given up so much in our negotiations with North Korea, and they have given up nothing. Wow, we haven’t given up anything & they have agreed to denuclearization (so great for World), site closure, & no more testing!" - prez

I haven’t been following this closely, but where does he get the idea they’ve agreed to denuclearization? Is there any grain of truth around which he’s built this claim? Stop question I know, but hey

Not sure if he’s basing that on the fact that South Korean officials have said KJU told them denuclearization was on the table as far as the NK-US summit goes (but that doesn’t seem to align with North Korea’s more recent statement) or if he is drawing that conclusion purely based on their announcement of testing stoppage.

yea if I didn't know better I'd say Trump is getting played here

he doesn't even know what is going on in the first place. he's the guy at the football game who thinks touchdowns are worth 4 points

"Wow, we haven’t given up anything & they have agreed to denuclearization (so great for World), site closure, & no more testing!" - Trump

In a declaration over the weekend that North Korea would suspend nuclear and missile tests, Mr. Kim spoke as if the North was already a nuclear power, and no longer needed weapons tests, a direct challenge to the Trump administration’s stated goal of denuclearization. Washington has declared that the coming negotiations are about getting rid of the arsenal.

i'd be hopeful that perhaps he could just shut up and that there would be at least ONE U.S. diplomat/State employee who could help drive this toward peace, but he just fired everyone and replaced them with fucking john bolton and mike pompeo

NK's gonna release those three prisoners, keep their nukes and trumps gonna demand the nobel peace prize and get all mad that the fake news media isn't sucking his dick well enough

I’d like to see him get mad about not getting credit for finding a way out of a crisis he created himself.