terrorist attacks throughout America

xp yeah I was mostly spitballing. it's not terrorism as we usually use the word

The provoked terror is in service of the incel community, or else he would have just killed himself. Not sure why everybody wants to count angels on the head of this particular pin.

Is that verified now? I'm not sure the incel community will benefit from this in any way or that it has any particular demands it wants met. Seems like a lot of empty posturing, trying to be a hero-martyr to a bunch of ninnies.

lol..

xp
I've only seen reports here on ILX (didn't even follow that last link), but since when do these attacks have to result in any benefit to the supposed beneficiaries?

And their demands are girlfriends and easy sex.

Well, I hear plowing a van into a crowd of people, killing indiscriminately, is a surefire way to attract women.

If this choad wanted to martyr/suicide-by-cop himself Im glad he didnt, and hes gonna crumble in a shitty prison instead.

Well the incel link has not been confirmed yet so I would put the breaks on that. However, I did give myself a tour of the incel community and they are celebrating him as some sort of hero. They don’t really want to be attractive to the opposite sex, they aren’t looking for solutions, it’s really about making the lives of ‘chads’ and ‘stacies’ to be as miserable as possible.

Seems like a lot of empty posturing, trying to be a hero-martyr to a bunch of ninnies.

lots of people think this is what terrorism is

if the goal is to make people afraid of antisocial (or internet-only social) young men, then it's pretty effective terrorism

'Incel' is kind of a misnomer, like calling yourself 'involuntarily unemployed' because you answer every job interview question with a pair of middle fingers. In that regard, acts like this seem to be fairly in line with their oppositional attitude toward the world-at-large, and I don't have a problem with using the label of 'terrorist' as a descriptor of someone who instantiates that repugnant ideology in such a fashion.

jack the ripper was a terrorist

a standard definition would likely include illegal use of force/violence, civilian targets or disregard for civilian bystanders, and some kind of political motivation. wanting society to be molded in ways that you and your pals agree with feels like as reasonable a definition of political aims as any.

you could argue the toss about it forever but one purpose of identifying these kinds of acts as terroristic would be to show that they come from a world-view and a set of ideas - however loose or terrible - that are being shared and propagated, and that the act is an expression of a worldview, even if it's an extreme expression of it.

it's interesting that the line between organised groups pursuing political goals and lone maniacs with no real interest in objectives beyond violence has become more blurred, probably bc of the rise of suicide attacks which masks the differences in a cloud of nihilism

"terrorism" has always been one of those words that is less taxonomic than propagandist tho, "one man's freedom fighter" etc.

and the capacity for a group to be organized has changed so radically thru the internet, any lone maniac can choose to affiliate themself to a cause - who's to say what the "real reasons" for killing complete strangers are or might be?

there is a trend for tying yourself to a cause but there's no real organisation in a lot of cases, just ppl reading things/watching endless youtube vids on their own

the muddier usage has no real use besides moral condemnation

tbf "lone maniac" or "shiftless loser" or "nihilist" all tend to moral condemnation too

all those terms, and "terrorist" too, could also be trying to contextualize actions that we find inexplicable? or we find them explicable because we attach our preferred label to them?

honestly, actual terrorism that has stated causes is difficult to parse because the manifesto and actual desired outcome might not line up

would al qaeda actually have been pleased if the western countries had pulled all military forces out of the middle east and pakistan/afghanistan, and business interests also left, or was that demand a red herring because they were looking for a war to bolster their own support?

they do, but they do so w/out confusingly grouping it in with the IRA/ETA/Boko Haram and so on

i think there's definitely one strand of tit for tat leftiness that likes to use terrorism as a descriptor to redress a perceived imbalance with the bad western governments's use of it

but i also think - and i'm way into hypotheticals here, not talking about this specific case - that there are organizations and ideologies formed from multiple "ppl reading/watching endless internet stuff". they may lack coherent structure or communication but they are identifiable communities nonetheless

xp with all the caveats about group ideology, jihadis like al qaeda shifted their focus onto 'the far enemy' bc they were propping up the regimes they had previously been fighting domestically, so... at least some of them probably wld be pleased?

There was some doubt about the veracity, but:

Facebook says the post from Alek Minassian referencing the "Incel Rebellion” and Elliot Rodger is real, and was posted publicly on his profile before Facebook shut it down.

— matthew braga (@mattbraga) April 24, 2018

i don't think it needs to be either/or and i don't think it muddies the water - some terrorist groups are more hierarchical and paramilitary in structure and maybe some aren't

we could call it post-terrorism, that should annoy loads of people :D

rhizome terrorism

lol

ISIS has been a v effective example of a group that blurs the boundaries (or you could just say deliberately seeks to inspire these disconnected copycats), but there is still a big difference between jabat al nusra and r/incel. it's basically the difference between an organisation and a cause

really mixed feelings about wanting to bring up even more things, but as this is our catalog of violent attacks, what the fuck is up with this waffle house shooter guy? we can't even effectively keep a guy who was trying to wander around the actual white house away from guns

makes me feel like there's absolutely no control of anything

xp yeah, agree with that

xp yeah, agree with that

"we can't even effectively keep a guy who was trying to wander around the actual white house away from guns"

that's a case of blaming the parent, no? his dad literally gave him back his arsenal

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-waffle-house-shooting-suspect-morton-20180423-story.html

Reminds me a bit of the Newtown shooter’s mom giving him access to guns. You can account for some things but you can’t always account for the stupidity of people.

I can't remember which shooter it was (a chilling thought in and of itself), but he supposedly underwent a psychological exam a few weeks prior to the shooting and his right to bear arms was maintained as holding guns was said to have a 'soothing' effect on him. I wish I could recall the exact details.

incel revolt is the weirdest theme of this dumb historical moment

post-terrorism = horrorism?

all of the horror of terrorism, but with none of that tricky "trying to achieve a political or ideological goal" stuff

the lines between online and the real world are starting to get blurred imo. "terrorism without a point" is common on the internet.

'Horrorism' works. As if we're hapless victims in an imaginary horror movie with an audience yelling at you to not go into one or another seemingly innocuous public place as they watch the spree killer approaching. Why'd you get hacked up with a machete? Because you were there.

it's a term i've seen before:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/sep/10/september11.politicsphilosophyandsociety

https://cup.columbia.edu/book/horrorism/9780231144575

i know i read the martin amis essay during the middle war years (jfc) but i'm not familiar with cavarero

the lines between online and the real world are starting to get blurred imo. "terrorism without a point" is common on the internet.

― Karl Malone, Tuesday, April 24, 2018 5:03 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Two non-snarky thoughts:

(1) If an internationally trend-setting musician is doing this, the Culture War is now probably poised to eat 'normie' society alive

(2) It's an incredible failure for at least one of the "sides" in this fiasco. https://t.co/Uqq0qC9cRq

— '((Adam (Elkus))) (@Aelkus) April 24, 2018

(the thread continues)

"Given how erratic 'Ye is, this probably doesn't reflect some kind of ulterior motive. His wife has always been the more Machiavellian of the two when it comes to PR. But even she has thrown some breadcrumbs to Very Online people (e.g shouting out anime on Twitter/Instagram). More important are the implications. An internationally recognized hitmaker and tastemaker is co-signing some of the Internet's nuttiest e-celebs. At this point it seems plausible that you will never be able to log off, even when you actually log off Twitter. Even a year ago, it did seem like this was containable. But in 2018 it does seem like the Great Corncobbing is, like acid, eating its way through all of the barriers separating it from day-to-day life."

lotta people trying valiantly to make jokes about or say they knew he was unstable all along, but kanye boosting the lowest-rent right wing mentaloids available just really sucks and i hate it

it fucking blows

to counter a point on another thread i think he's been extremely uninteresting for a long time

he's a hyper-rich narcissist with mental health issues, but sadly he'll probably influence some poor sad sack to become alt-right with his posts

did everyone forget about BILL COSBY INNOCENT!!! though? this feels like the same thing

in other words not a surprising development

no i did not forget that

imo who gives a shit whether it’s surprising or not, giving candace owens attention is fucking horrible

you can go from clueless latecomer gamergate faker to charlie kirk sidekick to superstar guru in just a couple years. who says you can't make it in america anymore.

anyway this 'incel revolt' stuff is horrifying and i don't have a clue what to do about it. peace to toronto.

i read one story where something was said along the lines of the dad had previously taken the guns from him awhile back when he was having issues, but gave them back when he was acting normal. this i actually don't think is necessarily a symptom of individual stupidity (though it kind of is) but also of america's weird relationship w/guns. this dad was treating them like toys that he took away when his kid was acting up.

the nra's current line is that they support the law's ability to take your guns, but only if the criteria is met for involuntary commitment for psych problems

which is an incredibly high bar

lotta people trying valiantly to make jokes about or say they knew he was unstable all along, but kanye boosting the lowest-rent right wing mentaloids available just really sucks and i hate it

kanye's never exactly been known for his mental stability

The lines between "serial killer" and "mass murderer" are clear; the lines between "mass murderer" and "terrorist" are not clear. I have very little problem calling some mass murdering schmuck with a private agenda a "terrorist" and the law as written (generally speaking) doesn't either -- as enforced, it does, which is bullshit.