Democratic (Party) Direction

what "side" do Assange and Greenwald share in 2018, Fred

Ok, so because Tilleman is speaking out against party leadership trying to avoid any debate over the Dem nominee by getting him to withdraw, he’s “on the side” of a Trump-supporting accused rapist asshole. I see why people love discussing politics with you.

I for one have no clue why you would take the side of Hoyer and the DCCC in this, Fred.

Talk about brainless tribalism

Oh J.D. beat me to it

DCCC is making a potentially grave error it they don’t restrain from getting involved in this way. It places too much confidence in conventional wisdom/historical norms to think it will be good enough to just tell people “more progressive candidates can’t win here”. You have the take the risk of seeing that demonstrated. On the immediate level it’s just bad politics.

And you have to love how Steny has no explanation, doesn’t even attempt one, other than to drag out a pompous paraphrase of “life’s not fair”

Fred b really showing his true colors in this last part of the thread. Its kind of hard to understand how anyone who doesn't actually work for the DCCC, DNC or some party consultant or think tank would take that line, which is not to say Fred B does, I just find his opinions here completely baffling.

Also Steny's analogizing progressive candidates to Roy Moore is pretty telling on multiple levels.

I mean even Nerdstrom is not with you on this one Fred

don't criticize the DNC on any grounds because they're the only potential bulwark against Republican/Trumpian rule is myopic but plausible and consistent

I believe Tom Perez was even critical of the DCCC during the whole Laura Moser situation.

don't criticize the DNC on any grounds because they're the only potential bulwark against Republican/Trumpian rule is myopic but plausible and consistent

― Mordy, Thursday, April 26, 2018 4:03 PM (forty-three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

But how could anyone who follows politics as closely as Fred really see it this way, as though the DNC and DCCC were the only way the Democrats could win? After a relative unknown mounted one of the strongest primary challenges ever to the DNC's pre-crowned nominee for president with near zero backing from party organs and even polled well against the Republican nominee? We're already seeing progressive democrats win formerly red state legislative seats with no help from the DLCC.

These are rhetorical questions. The DNC and DLCC's goals are not solely to win, but also to maintain ideological control over the platform of the party and to keep it "centrist." That is the function of these groups. It's not a nefarious conspiracy, it's just the inevitable result of who their donor base is.

(meant to say DNC and DCCC but same true for DLCC)

Can you list some examples of progressives having winning red state seats without DNC help? I only recall there was a similar widely circulated claim about Virginia’s Lee Carter which turned out not to be true.

I don’t know for sure that it is accurate to just conflate the DNC and DCCC as if they were identical twin cthuloid mind flayers or whatever. May have been true as recently as 2016! But not necessarily any longer.

If I had to guess at why Fred went balls-out for the wrong side in this it’s probably for the reason I almost did the same: Glenn Greenwald is a fucking turd monger so therefore fuck the intercept QED.

Gotta be able to reign in the reflexes sometimes though, Fred

identical twin cthuloid mind flayers

dammit tombot why you keep stealin my potential band name ideas

fwiw fred was a determined anti-sanders progressive iirc so i think he has been consistent on that front, if that indeed is the front he's on

fred cannot vote in american elections so his position on democratic politics is kinda moot to me anyway

unison HELLO HUNTSVILLE WE’RE THE IDENTICAL TWIN CTHULOID MIND FLAYERS

tcmf1 AND

tcmf2 WE

tcmf1 ARE

tcmf2 HERE

tcmf1 TO

tcmf2 EN

unison SLAAAAAAAAVE YOU

hell yeah

*head tentacles flailing about*

nobody ever thought of having a band that is actually two one-man-band guys playing at the same time

This is incredible. https://t.co/O0oEisXEeJ pic.twitter.com/ro04fnHdcR

— Osita Nwanevu (@OsitaNwanevu) April 26, 2018

Republicans were trailblazers in this area

“We're already seeing progressive democrats win formerly red state legislative seats with no help from the DLCC”

Anyone know what real think this is in reference to? Only case I can think of, it later turned out the guy had help.

*real thing

the party's unspoken prick

man i miss so much stuff out pounding the pavement for a job

Man, this profile of Levi Tillemann’s family doesn’t feel all that much like the working class neighborhood underdog guy I heard about earlier. https://t.co/ayfqFBLRXU

Interesting. And maybe a great candidate. But not what I felt like was being described to me.

— David Waldman, LLC (@KagroX) April 27, 2018

that story is not well-written

*head tentacles flailing about*

http://demonssouls.wdfiles.com/local--files/enemies/mind-flayer.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axHoy0hnQy8

David Waldman doesn't think any of that could take place in a working class neighborhood?

If Gremlins has taught me anything...

I disagree with him on several things, but this whole thing just reminded me how much I admire Jeremy Corbyn. Labour leader elections, talk about the party elite putting their thumbs on the scale. But once he got the chance, he took it, and he beat them. Then he did it again a year later. Then he destroyed May's conservative majority. He wrote down the policies, he ran on them, and he won. Compared to him, the American left is straight up pathetic. What's the theory? That the left has all these great ideas, but the party won't run on them because of their donors, but if only the populace got the chance, they would for sure beat everything the GOP threw at them. But then, the left can't win primaries either, because the Democratic establishment is just so nefarious! What with all their thumbs on the scale, and they put James Crow on a list that carries symbolic weight even though McArthur had a better website, and then what are you going to do?

So no. Don't criticize the DNC, DCCC or DLCC. Fucking beat them. Show them that you have the ideas, and the support, and go win. Instead of whining about thumbs and how hard it is to find resumes from the party. Create those freaking grassroots movements, it even sounds like there was one in Colorado even before Tillemann got there. That used to be what the left did. If you can't even figure out how to beat a bumbling idiot like Hoyer, then you're never ever going to get M4A anywhere.

who are you talking to?

lol

who are you talking to?

An Open Letter to the American Left from a Concerned European.

So no. Don't criticize the DNC, DCCC or DLCC.

Why not? Can't we do both? Why should we have to fight our own party?

I feel like the DCCC/DNC folks have almost a hazing mentality about all of this. They spend like 30% of their time begging rich people for money, so why should some new candidate get to skip all of that?

I guess if what you're saying is that rather than try to change them, we (the left) should just beat their establishment asses into irrelevancy, I totally agree. It's just a bummer that they (still!!) don't understand that there is another way to win. Not only that, but that their way hasn't been working for years.

I can't say he's wrong, either. You get power by winning elections. You win elections by winning votes. You win votes by connecting to voters. Back the candidates and ideas you connect with and then you are doing the right kind of political work to align the power structure with your ideas. Just complaining is a dead end and an energy sink.

lots of people are running on the ideas. doesn't mean you can't also bitch - done correctly it can in fact be quite galvanizing

jeremy corbyn won by winning a position (leader of his political party) that doesn't remotely exist in US politics, and his party has an explicitly social democratic history and platform. US progressives might be inspired by his example but it's hard to think of anything else about him they could really hope to emulate.

they could grow beards, though

also some of the bitching has resulted in (hopefully) useful Dem reforms, like the clawing back of superdelegates' power

idg how expelling all criticism is good for any party, if anything it is going to drive people away

The guy is running in the primary, he was told by the DCCC to drop out, they sent Steny Hoyer (from Maryland) out there to put the screws on him, and he taped it. Fred's answer is QUIT WHINING AND RUN IN THE PRIMARY which is, uh, what he is doing.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/04/26/nancy-pelosi-steny-hoyer-recordings-555935

The Progressive Change Campaign Committee sent an email Thursday morning encouraging donors to give to Tillemann and two liberal candidates in Nebraska and Pennsylvania the group says have been targeted by the DCCC.

PCCC and Democracy for America, a progressive PAC, later called on Hoyer to resign from Democratic leadership.

“Steny Hoyer and his corporate cronies already lost,” PCCC co-founder Stephanie Taylor said in a statement. “They don’t represent the future, and it’s time for them to step aside and make room for a new generation of leadership — one that inspires and motivates the base instead of depressing it.”

Tell us how it is again, Fred.

Xpost The misinformation/people thinking superdelegates cost Bernie the primary is really weird given that the 2008 primary wasn’t that long ago and it was all explained then, respeatedly. It’s a perfect example for why people like Fred are rightly skeptical of anti-Dem narratives. Weirder still that it would be a priority issue for anyone on the cusp of midterms.

Ultimately it’s fine if they get rid of the SDs if that makes people happy, I mean clearly they havent provided enough of a proven failsafe that’s worth the confusion having them generates about process.

regardless of the actual difference they've made (or haven't made), superdelegates were explicitly introduced as an attempt to make primaries less democratic -- the idea was that the increased voter involvement in the 1972 and 1976 primaries had given us mcgovern and carter -- so it's not rly surprising that they're perceived that way.

Modestly favor Bryce here but still think DCCC should stay out.

I assume other left critics of DCCC will be denouncing this as well? https://t.co/QQv4JY514u

— Nathan Newman (@nathansnewman) April 27, 2018