the day after the deadline: can the union survive brexit and other deep questions

concern about polarising discourse is too selective to be credible, especially when it is so readily deployed against imagined middle class corbynite rudeboy folk-devils in defence of people's right to aggressively barge into public forums to represent murderous hegemonic authoritarianism

"manners" have always been a class shibboleth so it's only natural when people use them to shut out discourse they don't want to hear

I think gammon is really the equivalent of the loony left, which I've never heard anyone complain about, and I expect it to stay around. the dickens quote from nicholas nickleby is ofc further proof of its timeless appeal

It certainly revealing how many centrists jump to the assumption that the gammon stereotype is intended to pillory the whole of the working class or all white men, etc, but the sloppy way it has often been used on Twitter leaves that door open, imo.

The value of vulgarity aside, it feels like a lot of people have been searching for a kind of counterpoint to pejoratives applied to the left and there’s a risk that is just playing into the culture war narrative .

Either way, giving people with a persecution complex an excuse to argue they really are derided on the basis of their race, age, etc is probably generally unhelpful.

i don't think your real gammons are open to the loving embrace of logic and persuasion tbh

Your real gammon would probably thump you if they heard you call them working-class. They are petit-bourgeois golf club whingers.

Absolutely, whoever said they were working class? Apart from middle class journalists who assume anyone who doesn't talk with the same accent as they do, and all their friends/ families/ relations/ colleagues, must be working class.

Middle-class Oxbridge southern journalists, for the most part, letting regional accents signify class in ways that aren’t accurate.

I think gammon is really the equivalent of the loony left,

That's loony lefty luvvie libtardflakes to you lad.

It's the middle-class journalists who have the soapbox and the incentive to deliberately misrepresent the term to their audience of the perpetually aggrieved.

However, there'll always be a few examples of an over-broad use on left Twitter to back them up.

The one gammon, out of the original Magnificent Nine, who subsequently turned up on another programme I was watching, was a farmer. Inevitably, he was simultaneously bleating about there being too many immigrants and about the prospect of there not being enough immigrants to pick his potatoes, or whatever, for him.

I'm not in favour of the lazy gammon takes accounts or the way it will lose its power as it gets spread about but that's inevitable. going to out myself as an occasional HIGNFY watcher here but I thought the richard ayoade bit on gammon and centrists dads and so on the other week when there was this strange self conscious and sort of divisive moment as the show dealt with something that mocked it was p interesting viewing

I can't believe ppl really think these red faced men publicly fantasizing about armageddon are crying out for respectful dialogue, and the idea that they represent any sort of middle ground to be appealed to is absurd. these are ppl who thrive on upfront & zesty statements of grievance, a bit of honesty in response is necessary imo.

the way ppl are concerned by the gentle lampooning of these ppl reminds me v much of the way the notion of legitimate concerns was deployed, this invocation of civic respectability which I think it's much more useful to expose than kowtow to

but the sloppy way it has often been used on Twitter

What word hasn't?

Either way, giving people with a persecution complex an excuse to argue they really are derided on the basis of their race, age, etc is probably generally unhelpful.

They will find something to fume about either way, no need to try to assuage them imo.

going to out myself as an occasional HIGNFY watcher here but I thought the richard ayoade bit on gammon and centrists dads and so on the other week when there was this strange self conscious and sort of divisive moment as the show dealt with something that mocked it was p interesting viewing

It felt to me like they quickly reduced it to "gammon = leave, centrist dad = remain", in order to best assimilate the terms into their business-as-usual shtick.

Still not as urgh as Sarah Pascoe just using gammon as a catch-all for white people on that Frankie Boyle thing mind.

tbh there have always been ways to lampoon them that don’t touch directly on race / age / appearance and don’t feed the (unfair) perception that the left is hypocritical in not wanting race / age / appearance-based epithets applied to other people. We survived with Little Englanders, Golf Club Bores, Col. Blimps, etc, for long enough.

Colonel Blimp was himself not a Colonel Blimp of course

I've been tired of his rote gadget-show-presenter shteez but he was gently confrontational and mocking in parts there in a way which felt out of keeping with the very familiar comfortable cynicism and received wisdom the show's become known for while nailing the quick pun-intensive tone which made the it popular

Guys, every fucking lamer is using the term now. It's over, let it go.

You might as well be going 'dicks out for Harambe' at this stage.

idk, getting every lamer using it is kind of the point tho

Back to 'racist cunts' it is then.

Tommy Robinson (not his real name) jailed for 13 months.

every white person I have spoken to who has claimed some sort of gammon-offence has quickly revealed a knot of confused feelings which were there already and need to be untangled

I know someone whose surname is Gammon, tho I haven't spoken to em about it.

I note Rosanne Barr is calling for Robinson’s immediate release on Twitter. I legit don’t know how anyone still engages with her shows.

Ah well, some good news today then.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/politics/news/95529/watch-gavin-williamsons-cringe-worthy-interview-%E2%80%98terminated%E2%80%99-failure

however carefully ppl dress up civility politics in common sensical gently derisive "knock it off lads" policing it still comes down to a raw appeal to authority, pulling off the neat trick of acting like something is trivial enough to not think abt seriously yet serious enough to be condemned.

gammon might not be good for you but the distaste for it is at jamie oliver-levels of unconvincing and point-missing

xp
fuck me, the tough talking Defence Sec given a hard time by that heavyweight Madley, no wonder the Russians are shit scared of him!

yes, conflating gammon with working class is ridiculous, the porterhouse 9 all looked stout yeoman types. They'd probably pass the SMaconie test for working classness by having regional accents, though.

Madeley off his meds again, local offies be aware

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/29/children-poverty-rocketing-defend-rights-unborn-child

Dr Francis Ryan: the very same zealots that care very much about the unborn child - shock horror - don't give much of a flying fuck about women and actual born children living in abject poverty. "Some British rightwing – often male – journalists couldn’t resist stepping in over the Irish debate too."

mods pls delete all my gulag/guillotine posts

An Islamic State supporter who posted more than 300,000 propaganda messages online has admitted encouraging would-be lone wolf attackers to target Prince George at school.

Husnain Rashid, of Nelson, Lancashire, called for the four-year-old to be targeted shortly after the prince joined Thomas’s school in Battersea, south-west London, last year.

Lancashire police said he had posted 360,000 messages on 150 different chat threads on Telegram, an online messaging service, between November 2016 and his arrest on 22 November last year. They believe his messages, which also included exhortations to attack UK football stadiums, the 2017 general election, Wimbledon, the Trafford Centre in Manchester and BBC Proms in the Park, may have been viewed by millions of people.

Other targets Rashid had urged people to attack were British army bases, Jewish communities, the Russian World Cup, the Easter parade at the Vatican, tourist spots and train stations across Europe. He encouraged followers to deploy a variety of methods, including injecting cyanide into fruit and vegetables at grocery stores and calling for ice-cream to be poisoned.

There was no evidence that anyone acted on his posts. Rashid, who lived with his two brothers and their elderly parents, was not known to police and had no previous convictions

calling for ice-cream to be poisoned.

These guys are never done calling for stuff, what are they like?

calling for Wenger to be sacked

One of his more universally popular exhortations.

this guy's posts must have fucking sucked if not one person was moved to act even after he'd posted over a third of a million of them

also wtf is telegram

He needed to stick t one target, really.

don't fault him for being an ideas man ffs

injecting cyanide into fruit and vegetables at grocery stores

not sure he'd thought this one thru

Telegram is a fairly huge message service started by Russian corpo tech dude gesticulating in front of futuretech background Pavel Durov.

It’s massive in Asia and Latin America iirc.

> injecting cyanide into fruit and vegetables at grocery stores

was mercury in my day. and specifically Jaffa oranges.

mercury is retrograde

meh! only 300000 posts, this latest intake of indolent apprentice jihadists are never going to make the grade, erm.. bring back national service!

Those Labour women who are pointing at Theresa May, a highly successful women in a traditionally man’s world, and trying to undermine her over abortion rights in a devolved part of the UK should ask themselves “am I a proper feminist?”

— James Cleverly (@JamesCleverly) May 30, 2018

James NotVery.

Thank God women have James Cleverly to tell them how to be feminists.

Proving the lie of nominative determinism since 1969

James C - the first living brain donor.

MP for Braintree.... coincidence???

It's withered.

Nigel Lawson, a former chair of the Vote Leave campaign during the EU referendum and one of tens of thousands of Britons living in France, is to apply for his official French residency card.

Lord Lawson was speaking to the Connexion, a newspaper for the English-speaking community in France, which asked him if he was concerned about the impact of EU immigration controls. European officials have warned that Britain’s new blue passports could lead to travel delays and extra paperwork rather than the enhanced freedom promised by the government.

He replied: “I’m not particularly familiar with it, but as I live in France I’m not concerned.