the day after the deadline: can the union survive brexit and other deep questions

This thread has all the classics.

did martin robbins ever join him in the book eating exercise? no, the coward pic.twitter.com/w6O3q9svtK

— The Panama and Iceland Fan 🇵🇦🇮🇸 (@schmrn) June 5, 2018

Danczuk brings a lot to the table, I'm sure his constituents didn't just vote for him because of party allegiance

This article needs better names for each of the eight (although the headline says nine while Bush presents it as ten) voting groups Bush describes.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2018/06/nine-voter-groups-who-are-more-important-labour-leavers

Group 1: Labour 2017, Gives An Answer Other Than “Jeremy Corbyn” When Asked Who Makes The Best Prime Minister
Group 2: Conservative 2015, Remain 2016, Labour 2017
Group 3: Conservative 2015, Remain 2016, Conservatives 2017
Group 4: Yes 2014, SNP 2015, Did Not Vote in 2017
Group 5: Non-voting until 2016, Remain 2016, Labour 2017
Group 6: Non-voting until 2016, Leave 2016, Non-voting 2017
Group 7: Conservatives 2015, Liberal Democrats 2017
Group 8: Conservative voters in 2017

All I got so far is 'Morrissey Dancers' for Group 6

not the only inaccuracy in that article, mentions voters in the 2017 referendum, I wasn't aware there was one, then the non-voters til 2016 also apparently voted for UKIP in 2015, schrodinger's racists?

Group 1: Blue Dan (Jarvis) Group
Group 2: Brinkmanshippers Unbound
Group 3: People We Actually Have To Deal With IRL Far Too Often
Group 4: Salmond Row
Group 5: Stormzy Und Drang
Group 7: Mrs. Johnson and the Ant Attack
Group 8: Zombie Nationalists

The greatest piece of TV for 2018. Ladies and Gentlemen I proudly present you with 'Love Island contestants discuss Brexit' #LoveIsland pic.twitter.com/if4UUNd0HD

— Gully Burrows (@gullyburrows) June 8, 2018

and they say Brexiters knew what they were voting for etc

Not getting a strong sense that she voted tbh

Sunday Politics just did a whole piece themed around this after chiding the pm for not ever having watched it.

Chris Williamson has managed to express solidarity with the current govt of Venezuela, the current govt of Nicaragua, Marc Wadsworth and Ken Livingstone in a single tweet

ttps://twitter.com/DerbyChrisW/status/1005519963518570496

Pleased to speak alongside Nicaraguan Ambassador Guissell Morales-Echaverry, Marcos Garcia from @VenezEmbassyUK & @sianlou82 today to express my support for self determination in Latin America and opposition to Trump's attacks. Great to see @Marcwads & @ken4london in attendance pic.twitter.com/gHd48hB2hb

— Chris Williamson MP (@DerbyChrisW) June 9, 2018

Mr radical 2 homes bringing the party into disrepute again, fucking arsehole.

fuck me, I bet if he could have resurrected Steve Biko's corpse for a one off selfie, the cynical cunt could have got Galloway on board as well as Ken.

cool and normal over here

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/whitehall-secrecy-cripples-brexit-plans-says-thinktank

Many suggesting it all leads to another GE before the year is out.

Today is potentially seismic. One senior official (very much NOT a Brexiteer): “We have now removed every incentive from EU for doing a deal by the end of November.” What happens after November? Parliament takes over. What does it want? EEA+. Who else wants EEA+? Follow the logic

— Tom McTague (@TomMcTague) June 12, 2018

you can still get 6/1 on a 2018 election, lump on quick!

This was a good response to dumb tweeting. This country (as much of Europe) have been forever maanging increasing levels of decline and inequality. Brexit may speed up what was already happening. Going back to the EU (which isn't possible) is going back to hardly managing.

Not picking an argument with DL here because we're pals, but a good opportunity to point out why this tweet profoundly misrepresents MY position on Brexit and (I would imagine) Corbyn and most other Corbyn supporters too. [thread] > https://t.co/g1KvxBY06J

— Ally Fogg (@AllyFogg) June 12, 2018

Anyway, this thread has been quiet so I am now here for the vote (yeah baby!)

"There is simply no going back to the pre-2016 consensus, it is impossible, it's not there any more."

no point trying to explain that to ppl like DL, who seem completely oblivious to what austerity is actually doing to other humans, or the history of how right-wing party rhetoric has often been most successfully utilised during "stabbed in the back" nationalist type narratives. I know he's an eminent ILXer and all that, but what a complacent, smug arsewipe. I can't stand reading anything by the fucker tbh - music or politics.

I’m reading The Candidate by Alex Nunns which talks about Corbyn’s election for leader and the broader political trends and it’s like reading an alternate history. I was pretty disengaged from politics at the time so I’d missed a lot of the Corbyn buildup and all the debates.

All these FBPE types can talk, quite truthfully, about the damage Brexit will do to the UK. But we wouldn’t have Brexit without years of cuts and austerity hurting people and the broad political consensus on both sides just handwringing and going “oh well sorry, nothing to be done”. To say nothing of the years of legitimate concerns that paved the way for the outright racism of both Leave campaigns! So when I read someone say, with great confidence and such sorrow, that Corbyn is just playing politics here? Just utterly contemptible. The current leadership was protesting cuts and speaking out against austerity while the supposedly sensible were ignoring suffering to play nice with the tabloids. Did any of these people ever speak out about the harm caused by their passive support before? Did they care then?

Tl;dr the penny has not dropped for any of these people and any second referendum/people’s vote will reflect that fact.

Errrrrrrr, isn't that the other guy saying that? (xp)

wtf is FBPE?

follow back pro eczema (for all!)

xp yes, I'm simply re-positing it to the DL type consensus!

PCPEU is another one that isn't intentionally related to drugs.

the history of how right-wing party rhetoric has often been most successfully utilised during "stabbed in the back" nationalist type narratives

I'm going to have to ask you to unpack this one - the pro-europeans are likely to to be the ones accused of stabbing in the back (on both sides, by the look of it!)

There is nothing to unpack, apart from your own myopic life throw a monocle pov!

Ah go on, give it a go - my monocle's in the shop at the moment, for a start.

that's what happens throw it, rather than looking through it!

anyway, people like you are always the worst commentators on brexit. Nothing personal, but you are.

ha! what

fuck me, i can barely put a fucking cogent sentence together at the best of times, jed! What?

no idea! people like A Farrell? there aren't many people like him.

People who incessantly, mono-manically cry about Brexit, tend not to give a fuck about lots of other issues that affect the working poor, the disabled, and other forgotten ones. So I basically don't care about their "concerns" either!

what the actual fuck

I don't think people like that are allowed here you must be mistaken. My monocle's AWOL too though. xp

nothing to "unpack". They chat much shite but have little of substance to say about those that need protecting. I'm cool with that. but will never agree with cunts like this!

Andrew is certainly a comrade with particular concerns and i don't know why you would think otherwise.

My fave remoaner hit is: "it's gonna worse for you ppl first". Cheers, but it's already shit and i didn't vote for it you fucking prick!

sorry I wasn't intentionally directing it all towards AF. I'm just a bit pissed tonight and sorry about any offence.

yeah, I can dig that. It's a truly awful time. Let's move on.

No offense here, it's been a shit day.

and I know it's been a bad time for you Cal x

if I'm ever in London again, i'll get you a beer in Andrew!

I'd be on for that - I know I'm a clever arsehole, and that obscures the fact that I know a lot of people are under the cosh for a lot of things. Because I'm Irish, the cosh for most of my loved ones largely reads 'Brexit'. But yeah keep your head up man.

Andrew doesn't half get some stick sometimes.

Hard-earned!

https://img.cdandlp.com/2017/08/imgL/118905627.jpg

I still think DL is a risible clown, but I feel I'm going into a terrible spin cycle here and better go to bed!

wtf is FBPE?

― We can be herpes (Tom D.), Tuesday, 12 June 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Its a twitter hashtag where Remainers can basically congregate to talk about how Brexit is terrible and its all Corbyn's fault and Neil Kinnock is a real Labour leader. I am sad to report I am mutuals with one of those ppl, who faves this lot like a drug so I get to see quite a bit of it, where its not someone from left-twitter mocking it.

There was a late night tweet from this person as to why this wasn't working.

the history of how right-wing party rhetoric has often been most successfully utilised during "stabbed in the back" nationalist type narratives

I'm going to have to ask you to unpack this one - the pro-europeans are likely to to be the ones accused of stabbing in the back (on both sides, by the look of it!)

― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 12 June 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Not to pile on or anything in the morning after some colourful exchanges here but I saw a point someone make a couple of days ago, of a possibility - should the referendum result be turned back by a 2nd ref (and that is only 52% the other way), or by any means necessary - of an upturn in fascist-type attacks, where a lot of migrant communities would suffer.

Don't think anyone posted this but a really good piece by David Runciman - which is what various people argue (on here and elsewhere).

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n09/david-runciman/too-few-to-mention

And the last sentence:

But for anyone to undo Brexit, someone is going to have to do it first.

there have been multiple Dacre-bot "national betrayal" type headlines in the dying r/w printed press in the last few days, and no doubt May's continuing weakness and prevaricating will inspire many more. But I could imagine them becoming much more dangerous in a post 2nd ref landscape. I mean they only go out to a couple of mill these days, but are parroted by millions more on the parts of social media that hurts my eyes. During the first ref there were some violent flare ups between Asian and Eastern European communities locally. And that poor guy who got murdered in Peterborough come to mind, I'm sure there was much of this type of shit going down at the time. It would be absolutely foolish to ignore the dangers of these forces having a totemic "betrayal" narrative, whilst being useful idiots for the billionaire hard-brexiters who like the Singapore model very much.

oh, also the small matter of an MP getting murdered in cold blood by a far-right nationalist, that obv had no connection at all with "the message" they were putting out at the time.