Backpacking across Europe

Yeah, I was trying not to ding Brussels, I figured maybe darraghmac was a huge World Bank fan or something.

also deems be in touch if u like when you come to the lowlands obv

I’ve come to like Brussels for its beer, chocolate, and waffles (I always follow my gut). The Magritte museum is excellent and the Sablon quartier is worth a stroll.

I’m assuming you are on a rail pass, in which case going from Lyon through Switzerland and up to Germany is a must. I’d go Lyon-Geneva-Montreaux-Speiz-Interlaken-Lucerne-Zurich-Germany (possible side trip or divert by Gruyere).

Alternate longer route Lyon-Chamonix-Martigny-Brig-Andermatt-Chur-Bregenz/Konstans-Germany

Lots of beautiful lakes and mountains and an opportunity to take a boat on Lake Geneva, Thunnersee, Zurichsee or Lake Konstans.

Once you are in Germany you can whip up to hamburg or Berlin from Munich on the ICE.

ive done interrailing through switzerland but never done the low countries, which tbh is an area it seems comfortable but not too interesting to mooch around (which is somewhat the tenor for the week thats in it)

if opposition continues vociferous i can amend

all decisions in context of:

1) ive been lots of places before!

2) dont want to conprehensively do anywhere new that is a likely future couple trip (so essentially everything north of lisbon all the way around to the Pyrenees is parked

also deems be in touch if u like when you come to the lowlands obv

― lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Monday, 25 June 2018 09:34 (fifty minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hows ur plumbing

anyone have any experience of the new coach travel craze, yr flixbus and what-have-you

plumbings a-running xp

2) dont want to conprehensively do anywhere new that is a likely future couple trip (so essentially everything north of lisbon all the way around to the Pyrenees is parked

― under a mand'rin tsar (darraghmac), Monday, 25 June 2018 8:25 PM (eight minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

This contains some of the most amazing countryside anywhere in the world so we’ll worth dedicating some of your time and saving for doing with your partner.

thats the thought alright

Koln is the usual rail interchange if you're coming from Belgium and is worth wandering around for a day or so. I assume you've been to Bruges and Ghent before but if not would go for either over Brussels.

anyone have any experience of the new coach travel craze, yr flixbus and what-have-you

If you are on a budget and cool with all the obvious flaws or risks of coach travel compared to rail these are fine, comfy enough etc. Recently took a Flixbus within France and they tend to take breaks at services even on journeys less than 3 hours (worth trying to confirm with the driver if they're stopping as I wouldn't bet on the coach toilet being available).

xp good info, not tied to brussels as long as the alternative does waffles, fries with mayo and beer

nashwan- thanks. i was hoping reports that the coach game had changed up meant comfort/chance of sleep on an overnight coach would be equivalent of sleeper train but much cheaper. not the case?

I don't like to disagree with Matt DC, but no way is Bruges more interesting than Brussels. I think Brussels is fantastic, good eating good drinking and surprisingly good wandering; Bruges, while pretty, is a bit of a tourist trap fossil IMO. Ghent's pretty good, a bit more alive. Antwerp, like Ghent, is a good mix of medieval doings and lively good stuff.

On a similar route we once stopped off in Aachen; the town's not much of much but the cathedral is worth basing a whole trip on.

I didn't much go for Cologne, but people seem to really like it. We found a great bar or two and were happy enough (the endless 1 euro beer thimbles is a cool trick) but didn't really think it was somewhere to bother going back to.

anyone here been to Leipzig or Weimar? I'm spending a week in each in July, for work and for sightseeing etc. I've never been to the east of Germany except for Berlin, so I'm hoping for a different vibe than the west. heading to Weimar to get lost in kulture, Goethe and Herder and (in nearby Jena) Hegel and Frege.

not the case?

not tried Flixbus overnight journeys but didn't get the impression it could really compete with trains for comfort no

thus far

lisbon, three days
overnight flixbus to barcelona
one night there, flixbus to lyon
two nights there
? for about a week, probably ranging from bruges through cologne and that general region en route to hamburg
hamburg, two nights, train to berlin
three nights there
fin

travel a doddle and v cheap vs doing it with internet 1.5 back in 2005, and thats without the benefits of eg uber and google maps in my pocket for those finicky in-between steps

keeping a close eye on this thread because I'm considering doing something similar, although probably less robust until I get my traveling feet back under me

By way of the "? for a week":

Antwerp is totally worth it. I think Antwerp and Ghent are both more interesting than Bruges, although Bruges has its charms of course.

People like Cologne, I didn't take to it much (though the thing with the bringing the constant little excellent beers is good).

I've no idea whether you are interested in cathedrals and that but Aachen Cathedral is unbelievably brilliant. There's not a great deal else in Aachen though we found a few nice bars and there are a couple of wacky modernist churches.

Jesus I said all that about three posts ago and I had completely forgotten, sorry.

you did but it was good info and thanks!

i hope to get a day in either ghent or antwerp, the cologne stop is to meet up with one of the brothers and tbh is a tough more eastward than id hoped to be at those dates but worth rearranging for the sake of the company

likewise it means one day free between cologne and hamburg, the distances/ease of travel are p negligible so does anyone have any recs for anywhere fun/cool?

sic and matt may be somewhat smug that i have indeed invested in a big donkey of a wheeled suitcase for the purposes

I spent a few hours in a Decembery Bremen once, on a day trip from Hamburg. They have an exceptionally good expressionist alleyway!

It was hammering with rain but we still enjoyed it, I wanted to stay longer. It might have been my pre-Xmas mood but it seemed like the sort of place you could have a drink.

Everything between Düsseldorf and Hamburg is skippable, unless you're into sooty industrial architecture, and cows.

― oder doch?, Monday, 25 June 2018 07:16 (one month ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

ha, content noted.

People like Cologne, I didn't take to it much (though the thing with the bringing the constant little excellent beers is good).

IIRC the best venue in town is shunned by the natives because its owners are from Düsseldorf. And the beer is from the Sauerland.

I prefer Ghent to Bruges as well although I like both a lot.

^ into Bruges

^^ ghent say no

Ghent ftw

Going to Gent next month, for business but, it sounds like, also for pleasure.

I do like Brussels though, more each time I visit.

So in the cathedral in Ghent they have Van Eyck’s Adoration of the Mystic Lamb, except that currently it’s undergoing some conservation. You can see the main thing (with high-quality photos of the bits being fixed to give you the impression) in the the cathedral as usual. The conservation process is happening panel by panel in public view in the art museum across town. It’s amazing. And the painting itself is amazing obviously.

lisbon-barcelona-lyon-brussels-cologne-bremen-hamburg-berlin is how this is gonna play out

thanks for all the info so far (and happy for any recs for above, esp lyon-hamburg steps)

It was six years ago, but the tasting menu at Manairo in Barcelona is still the best meal I've ever eaten.

The food in Lyon is glorious as well. Don't eat the andouillettes.

I love andouillette

La politique, c'est comme l'andouillette. Ca doit sentir un peu la merde, mais pas trop

not selling it tbh

lyon v def a food destination

Barcelona gonna be a v quick overnight, looking forward to a late tapas and beer maybe the most realistic prospect as im on the road early morning again. if its close and doable ill look that place up tho, thanks

If it's your one night in Barcelona then tapas, beer and wandering are a much better bet.

been before, will be back again. this trip is pretty unpressured in that sense tbh so its whatever strikes me or whatever whimsy takes me save for the portions of it im accompanied (lisbon, brussels-cologne, berlin)

even then ill have some say in things, except for berlin.

This is hardly secret knowledge but Ramiro in Lisbon is as good as people say.

Jesus is from Goa is a ridic good tiny spot of a restaurant in Lisbon. I was so into it that I went back to Lisbon a day early (from Porto) to eat there again. And then booked a flight to India to visit Goa proper.

I guess the proper name is Jesus e Goes with some accent marks thrown in, but you get the picture.

What would you like to eat in Lyon? Do you know what days of the week you will be there?

I have spent the equivalent of 7-8 months total in Lyon in the last 2 years so ask away about restaurants or where to go.

will do, ta

q1 does anyone really eat andouillette?

Unasked-for and fully ignorable personal top brick expressionist architecture sights from the German portion of your journey:

1. Cologne: St. Engelberts (didn't get inside this one but it looked fab enough from outdoors. Good excuse to use the tram from the entre of town)
2. Bremen: Böttcherstraße (aforementioned alley featuring the hobbity-medievalist end of brick expressionism, has an excellent little museum dedicated to Paula Modersohn-Becker who I hadn't heard of before we went but whose work I loved).
3. Hamburg: Chilehaus (probably my favourite brick expressionist building outside Amsterdam or Vienna, the sharp modernist end of expressionism, also contains a fancy shop which is good if you want to look at classy garden supplies or lovely stationery, as all civilised people must)
4. Hamburg: the rest of the Kantorhaus viertel (several handsome buildings of the type, all get a bit overshadowed by the Chilehaus but still good wandering)
5. Berlin: Kirche am Hohenzollernplatz (absolute classic masterpiece, I still can't quite believe it's from the 30s, conveniently close to a U-bahn and open most of the time due to art exhibitions in there)
6: Berlin: Hufeisenseidlung (Horseshoe estate) (OK not so bricky and maybe more modernist than expressionist but this is a must-see for any social-housing based trip and a surprisingly pleasant spot).

one of the best things I ate in lyon was self assembled from the produce at the local food markets along the river: some soft creamy cheese with fresh figs and top class french baguette

the paul bocuse food halls are class (if a little bougie)

go eat huîtres (with a little glass of white) by the saône

there’s an amazing little place to view the sunset at the top of croix rousse where all the local youths assemble to chug beers and canoodle

the gallo-roman museum is unmissable for the building itself

cheers cheers

Yeah, I was about to say unless you have a hankering for something specific restaurant wise in Lyon, like dying to go to a bouchon, I would hit the St Antoine marche on the Saone (open all days until 1pm (not Monday because, Monday ya know) although nearer the weekend has more prepared foods, Croix Rousse marche on Saturday and there is an evening marche with some prepared foods on the Rhone on the Part Dieu side near the big outdoor pool. Get some poulet roti, mmmmm. There are beer barges over on the part dieu side right over Pont Wilson too if the weather is nice. I would completely skip Bocuse Les Halles, it's out of the way and expensive, although pretty if you just want to take pics or want an expensive seafood tower. There's a pretty good pizza place near Perrache and inexpensive conveyer belt sushi that is actually decent for France (with discount on The Fork, La Fourchette) if you are feeling it. I really like Parc Tete D'or but it's a little out of the way (but they have a free zoo in the middle). I also think you should walk up to the ruins and basilica and see some of the traboules. This one in Croix Rousse is popular and is pretty cool for pics. https://travelguide.michelin.com/europe/france/rhone-alpes/rhone/lyon/cour-des-voraces

hey that's great stuff, thanks. lyon def gonna be a wandery day or two

(tho i think i will do a bouchon too over the two days)

brussels is boring yes

Brussels has the best chocolate, frites, waffles & beer in the world, mon frere.

had a bad waffle earlier with bad chocolate on it.

like a kicked cat now so i am

Were you actually looking for a good place to eat or just whatever was convenient

Brussels has the best chocolate, frites, waffles & beer in the world
no small feat!

Brussels is the equivalent of being happy a boring department store exists because you know that at least you can use a restroom there when you really need it.

I don’t know what you all look for in a city but to me Brussels is great, though my first few times there I didn’t like it much. It’s a grower I guess.

The time I went to Brussels we stayed in a huge noize band vegan squat for a show. My friend tried to leave in the morning to get breakfast and set off all the alarms and the main guy yelled at her. I still think brussels is boring.

Brussels is boring in a very good way IMO

had a good wander today and caught all the buildings and bits that are capturable in a wander

grand but boring is verdict

update

livelier at night but very diffiult to find decent food tbh

They have rly bad beer

koln is really fuckin nice eh

Is it beer garden weather? There's a cracking one by a lake in a park, keep forgetting the name.

the rheinpark foodmarkt with its distribution of 50/20/20/10 wine/beer/boar/everything else was just the job this sunny eve thks