L. Cohen or P. Simon, who is the better songwriter

who had more songs on the soundtrack to shrek?

checkmate paul simon u tiny bitch

talk about covers, there must be a million Cohen covers out there and a handful of Simon ones

Probably more than a handful but, yes, for a guy who is a Poet Not A Songwriter Cohen must have written some of the most covered songs of his generation: Suzanne, Bird on a Wire, Hallelujah...

surely "hell, i can sing it better than that" is even more of a factor for Len than Paul

I don't know about talent, but Cohen is better.

man now i'm sad there was never a cohen and garfunkel

Awesome cover and Simon tears up (much like emmylou did when they dedicated a song to her)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pa3xOakbGTo

Voted Cohen, all you haterz can go fly a kite.

I was lucky enough to see him perform 6 years ago. He played a 3 hour set, not a dud in sight.

We had a lot of fun
We had a lot of money
We had a little son and we thought we'd call him Sonny
Sonny gets married and moves away
Sonny has a baby and bills to pay
Sonny gets sunnier
Day by day by day by day

talk about covers, there must be a million Cohen covers out there and a handful of Simon ones

possibly because there's more room to improve on the original performances

now, who is the better cook?

Keats vs. Wordsworth

Paul Simon, obviously.

simon's last album was hella cool

xp - Yes this poll is a little ridiculous I guess. Cohen seems more revered around here but that probably has a lot to do with his being more active this century and then his passing

Cohen’s adherents tend to be particularly... spirited, in my experience

don't make me post that amanda palmer video

I remain blissfully ignorant

two different types, hard to compare, but i prefer Lenny C

possibly because there's more room to improve on the original performances

Kinda like Bob Dylan then.

The fact is cohen is like last among the canonical big singer-songwriters to come out in Dylan’s wake and go huge in the 70s - neil, paul, lou reed - they’re all ahead of him imo.

He never 'went huge' in the 70s. I don't really think Paul Simon is the same thing at all as those others listen, or Dylan - even if that's where he started.

listed not listen

Dylan, Cohen, Neil Young, Lou Reed - their songs are generally pretty simple to play and sing.

Neil paul bob and leonard all came out of the coffee shop folkie milieu ifvthe early 60s, which is really the only common link. Lou is bit of a different beast but even he had a bit of that in him as is evident from VU outtakes and demos.

Leonard wouldve loved to he huge in the 70s if he’d been able to figure out how lol

xp

Be huge

leonard is a superior lyricist, but not as superior as paul is a melodist.

Because of this thread I found out that Simon has a new album coming out in septembe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_the_Blue_Light It includes rerecorded versions of some of his more obscure songs. He did a couple on the tour, and they were great. My response literally was that I wanted a whole album of that. So yay :)

Strikes me that if Simon were a worse melody writer, or a singer more in the style of Dylan or Cohen then his lyrics would be better thought of. He's been *too fucking good* a songwriter to get the same kind of plaudits for being a poet like those 2, and others.

Either that or people don't like his songs or his records.

People don’t like his songs or records, which is why he’s one of the most popular songwriters of the 20th century

Maybe the sort of people likely to give out plaudits for being a poet might not like be the sort of people who like his songs and or his records? Crrrrrrritics?

It's pretty silly to say he's too good a songwriter to be recognized as a poet, isn't it? Leonard Cohen actually was a poet after all!

I can't think of much worse than a songwriter being called a poet anyway so Paul has done well to avoid the tag!

Cohen better at words, Simon better at tunes, voted Simon because tunes is better than words

voted Simon for that sweet ass

Lenny never blew that room away imho

lmao

only one of these men was a REAL songwriter

Either way Cohen and Dylan are both known as having a lyrical genius or huge gift that Simon doesn't have and i posit that much of it is because he wrote tuuuunes, so the lyrics get ignored half the time. Hardly the most original thought ever expressed about the man i'm sure but there it is.

the idea that Cohen and Dylan get covered more because "there's more room to improve on the original performances" doesn't make any sense to me

they get covered for the same reason Shakespeare's plays get played; partly because of canonization, partly because they wrote v strong material with room for interpretation

to suggest Cohen (or Dylan or Young or Lou or whichever songwriter) didn't write good melodies also completely misses the mark to me

I'm thinking Simon's style of writing doesn't lend itself as much to covers (apart from the early folky stuff)

anyway I still find this a troll poll

That Cohen doc Simon posted upthread is amazing.

See, even Paul Simon is a fan of Lennie.

"Proper" songwriting, yeah, right.

agree with the comment above that the excellence of Simon's songwriting obscures his quality as a poet. (even with sonny getting sunnier.)

half of whatever votes Simon gets should be distributed to Los Lobos

this thread is making me hate paul simon

I hear you.

voted Simon for that sweet ass

― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Friday, July 20, 2018 7:08 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

respect

is the Capeman music good

I think we'd all feel better if we got back to our Leonard Cohen stage musical

(I would, anyway)

either that or my long-dreamed of Lou Reed/Paul Simon gritty NY 70s buddy cop movie

(Leonard Cohen can play one of their sleazy informants)

a poll of sophisticated music fans would also have Simon winning I'd think

ooh sophisticated music fans!

Can’t believe all these boring flyover country rubes who prefer Leonard Cohen

ime experience with any of these kinds of "canonical" matchups (see also the recent RTX vs. Pavement poll), there's a vocal contingent on the thread arguing for one side, and then the silent majority swoops in and votes in massive numbers for the more boring answer. This has happened a lot.

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, August 8, 2018 10:26 AM (forty-four minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

this comparison makes no sense. pavement was far more popular and well known that RTX, simon is far more popular and well known than cohen.

Can’t believe all these boring flyover country rubes who prefer Leonard Cohen

― omar little, Wednesday, August 8, 2018 11:12 AM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

we should go to a small town diner to talk to laid off steelworker trump voters about which track off songs from a room is their favorite

pavement was far more popular and well known that RTX, simon is far more popular and well known than cohen.

idk out there "in the real world" yes, but I'm talking about relative to ILM. In both cases the more boring answer (Pavement/Cohen) won, why because corny indie fux00rs

fwiw I didn't vote in the Pavement/Trux poll cuz I honestly couldn't decide, I love them both and they do v different things. But I was not entirely surprised when all the "RTX" posts were followed by Pavement winning handily.

simon is far more popular and well known than cohen

If you're talking audience, then I'm pretty confident more people have heard or own some version of "Hallelujah" at this point than anything by Simon. For whatever that is worth. What is the most iconic/perennially ubiquitous Paul Simon song? "Sound of Silence" or something like that? Are there any Paul Simon songs that, say, a high schooler or middle schooler would immediately know?

"heard or own" is a low bar

idk what Simon's most widely known song is. Mrs. Robinson? Me & Julio?

If you're talking audience, then I'm pretty confident more people have heard or own some version of "Hallelujah" at this point than anything by Simon

uh what? Yes, it's true they -- whoever they are -- may know a song called "Hallelujah," maybe even identify Leonard Cohen, but this is a world where people will think "Paul Simon" and name "The Boxer," "Mrs. Robinson," "Bridge Over Troubled Waters," "You Can Call Me Al," "Me and Julio" and so on.

i don't know guys, a lot of songs, you can call me al or any number of incredibly popular songs you mentioned and many others. like it's not even close simon has many standards.

but i'll dip out and let simon fans jack themselves off about their really advanced tastes in music

Heard or own is definitely a low bar! I doubt many under the age of, I dunno, 30 know much about either artist, so knowing just one song from one of them might be it!

I mean, Cohen's Various Positions wasn't even released in the U.S. when it came out in the early 80s.

A few years later, Cohen accepted an award and said about Columbia Records "I have always been touched by the modesty of their interest in my work."

Which has nothing to do with quality, just popularity.

Giggling at the conspiracy theories explaining why Simon got robbed.

idk what Simon's most widely known song is. Mrs. Robinson? Me & Julio?

― Οὖτις, Wednesday, August 8, 2018 4:24 PM (two hours ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

At this point, I'd say 'You Can Call Me Al', actually!

http://simonandgarfunkelnews.web.tv/video/the-sweeney-sisters-paul-simon-bridge-over-troubled-water-webtv__bloizapjrnk

omg watching this again serious lols