the day after the deadline: can the union survive brexit and other deep questions

I wrote before I read the Novara article - it's what I'd have liked to have said (though I would have to stop and think before agreeing with their disagreements with the IHRA)

xp so why didn’t he involve Jewish groups in the drafting of the code? They still could have disagreed and it would have shown a lot more humility and understanding. The moment I heard the JLM and others had been left out of the debate, it was obvious it was going to turn out badly and it deserved to.

fwiw, the JLM was consulted before the code was published but there is a dispute over whether the people spoken to had the power to act on behalf of the wider group and exactly what they agreed. Either way, it’s described as a “red line” issue for their leadership and they’ve threatened to sue the party if the IHRA guidelines are not approved without amendment. This isn’t an issue that could have been negotiated away, however badly Formby, etc may have handled it.

Which is ironic, considering the modification of the examples was done in part to make them watertight legally in the event of legal action from members who face expulsion or suspension.

What a broigus...

broigus - what an absolutely ace word, gonna start using that one!

Jeremy Newmark, who re-founded the JLM and is their chair / primary spokesman, has a long history with the exact issue Labour can’t square - whether calls to boycott Israel, or focus a greater attention on the occupation of Palestine than, say, Morocco’s position in Western Sahara, are inherently antisemitic. He sincerely believes they are and that the IHRA guidance backs this up.

He was involved in the legal action brought by the Academic Friends Of Israel against the University and College Union claiming that their support of a boycott of Israel amounted to harassment of Jewish professors. The case was dismissed, and Newmark specifically criticised by the judge for lying.

There is fundamentally no way to make everyone happy with this. The split in the party is intractable. Labour fudging it a bit by requiring evidence of intent before certain criticisms of Israel are determined to be antisemitic, while others are determined to be inherently antisemitic, is probably the best they could do but it’s never going to be signed off by everyone however they went about it.

Pretty much yeah. You can say there are some old cranks (and yer Trots) fucking up for the rest of the movement but the young ones will shout next time an Israeli kills Palestinians and more shit will be made of it. Still though between this and "Stockpiling/army in the streets post-no deal Brexit" this version of the silly season is off to a cracking start!

Careful - I can hear xyzzzz starting up his chainsaw

― imago, Tuesday, 31 July 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Its guillotine get it right - and with any luck it'll be coming for you and you only.

This seems like a far more important story, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45021520.

Hate to be a snowflake but that's not dissimilar to a death threat

Anyway, whatever. The harmless back-and-forth of online discourse!

http://bricksafe.com/files/Mestari/Guillotine/1DSC04004.JPG

Would that all of ILX’s politics discussions proceed in Lego only

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jeremy-corbyn-hosted-event-likening-israel-to-nazis-6sb5rqd5x

Lol

I'm thrilled with what Corbyn has started, but someone else might have to finish it? Someone trve kvlt and versed in Project Momentum obv, nobody with even a hint of centrism let alone Blue Labour, but also someone who might prove harder to attack? Our own Ocasio-Cortez, if you will? IDK I'm drunk

The lol was for Robespierre over there :D

"Who in history but Robespierre is specifically disliked for his virtue?"

Love 2 attack Corbyn for hosting an Auschwitz survivor

Not very keen on seeing Imago threatened to be beheaded, lego style or not tbh.

idk, he could do with not beginning with 'I' all the time tbh

idnr ever actually threatening ilxors with death, just that i hoped it happened or would be glad when it had

seems bad

how many voters are centrists btw

"Who in history but Robespierre is specifically disliked for his virtue?"

Yes, lay off Maximilien.

Not very keen on seeing Imago threatened to be beheaded, lego style or not tbh.

― lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Tuesday, 31 July 2018 Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

He loves the attention, don't worry about his crocodile tears - drunk and chatting thrash straight away.

"The world dislikes Robespierre and Saint Just, not because of what they said but because they intended what they said. Complete sincerity is thought a crime." (these are from Ian Hamilton "Robespierre did nothing wrong" Findlay)

the world dislikes robespierre because he got what he wanted but just kept chopping necks

he had 0 chill

iirc Robespierre probably was having a mental health crisis by the end?

apparently he was suffering from a quite severe case of sarcoidosis (possibly confirmed by his death mask) by the time of his execution. Yezhov was a more extreme example of "this job of killing thousands every day - is just killing me".

Pretty unfair that he should cop the blame, a lot of the worse excesses were carried out by the men who ended killing him - that's why they killed him.

at what stage dyou think youse all will have taken the fanboying for the murderers on *your* team a touch far

He's the original Centrist, the right and the left combined to off him.

can't help feeling some love for people that murdered lots of landed gentry.

I wonder if there are French revolution Top Trumps...

xyzzz was on that “actually Stalin was good” shit in another thread just so we all know where he stands on the murdering.

on another thread

like

just one other thread?

would youse all murder centrists, yknow the ones you need to vote for your murderer

Well at least one other thread, I’m not gonna say it’s every thread

like every upstanding citizen in the world isn't doused in blood already

no but but we need to appeal to smug posh cunts who have got it easy, to maintain this fantastic system, because their endorsement is so essential .. apparently.

.. or rugged individualists ..who've grafted their arse off to get where they are ..of course!

not sure i dont hate the rugged individualists more tbh calz

tho oftener than not those cunts just had rich daddies too

i had a sweary argument with my younger brother about this last week. He does a shit low paid work from home job, doing corporate scripting on a self-employed basis. Because he's managing to get by rn, with some considerate help from his stepdad with his mortgage. He has started talking like a Young Tory: Universal Credit is fine, I'm getting by, other people must be feckless cunts etc.... I told the soft little space cadet shite, if it wasn't for his stepdad's help he'd be in the private rental sector, completely insecure and living from fucking foodbanks, but he felt that wasn't quite the case with HIM!

oh yeah been on ilx long enough know, not to gaf about blatant D-mac trolling!

pfft were all friends here

big happy ilx family.

An apology just issued (to do with The Times story Tom D just linked last night, rather the NEC)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/01/jeremy-corbyn-issues-apology-in-labour-antisemitism-row

ilx has always been a broad church

I haven’t actually seen the show in question, but I assume that means that if someone did die, it’d take 8 hours to gather statements from everyone.

Most people aren't 'centrists' in the Blair manner of speaking. Obviously loads of people *consider* themselves in the middle of the political spectrum even if they want to bring back capital punishment for immigrants, but a big reason that Labour did better than expected last time was because the manifesto was full of things that people had wanted to happen all along.

Obviously people in Westminster confuse 'policies designed to attract floating voters' with 'centrism'. This should in theory benefit Blairites but they're just as blinded by the whole thing and it's hitting them at a time when there's lower demand for 90s style centrism.