the day after the deadline: can the union survive brexit and other deep questions

pfft were all friends here

big happy ilx family.

An apology just issued (to do with The Times story Tom D just linked last night, rather the NEC)

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/aug/01/jeremy-corbyn-issues-apology-in-labour-antisemitism-row

ilx has always been a broad church

I haven’t actually seen the show in question, but I assume that means that if someone did die, it’d take 8 hours to gather statements from everyone.

Most people aren't 'centrists' in the Blair manner of speaking. Obviously loads of people *consider* themselves in the middle of the political spectrum even if they want to bring back capital punishment for immigrants, but a big reason that Labour did better than expected last time was because the manifesto was full of things that people had wanted to happen all along.

Obviously people in Westminster confuse 'policies designed to attract floating voters' with 'centrism'. This should in theory benefit Blairites but they're just as blinded by the whole thing and it's hitting them at a time when there's lower demand for 90s style centrism.

I'm defining centrism here as a broadly free market approach to the economy coupled with much higher public spending. Also perhaps a socially liberal agenda for those in the middle coupled with lots of tough on crime promises.

Centrism has succeeded in the past not because the population in general has been centrist, but because it had provided enough of what enough voters want to convince them to overlook the other stuff. The tough question centrists aren't asking themselves, or at least are incapable of answering, is why this is apparently no longer the case.

So in this definition, different groups of centrism-curious voters have different 'other stuff', yeah?

one of the problems is that rather than making everyone middle class, it is making vast swathes of the country downwardly mobile, whilst creating a new dependent on charity class. And the best answer they (including lots of Labour here) have for the most severe housing crisis since the postwar years, is the old "affordable housing" bollox, and it's not cutting it with a hell of a lot more people these days. And the trains aren't running on time!

Yeah I kind of assumed centrist just equalled classic Wet Tory - slightly to the right of the Lib Dems but not much, slightly left of Blair.

Convicted fraudster Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon aka Robbie Tominson wins appeal, will get out of jail, be on TV a lot.

The UK government is considering continuing the free movement of EU citizens as part of its Brexit no deal planning, according to confidential Home Office material leaked to my colleague @tpgcolson https://t.co/GSZqmKnP8e

— Adam Payne (@adampayne26) August 1, 2018

This seems like a classic 'please no one' approach if ever I saw it.

I mean presumably it'll make it easier to emigrate, that's one thing.

good to see the party of free enterprise adopt the classic business-negotiating technique of 'flailing wildly'

how the FUCK do you appeal contempt of court?

"I'm a sovereign human being, I stand under common law only" - Thread of Freemen ?

Also, I thought he'd plead guilty? As, someone said upthread, get used to seeing his face on a lot more than the back of some racist's leg.

sent to a new hearing:

Tommy Robinson ruling is fairly critical of how the Leeds judge handled the contempt case and the decision to send him to prison on the same day as the alleged comtempt. (From the press summary.) pic.twitter.com/M4jl1QRPaF

— Jim Waterson (@jimwaterson) August 1, 2018

He appealed on a procedural point — that the judge shouldn't have acted so quickly, and that the wording of the offence was done so oddly it wasn't clear precisely what he was pleading guilty to.

He's going to face a new trial for contempt, and he's going to go down for it. I don't think the calf-tattoo types have clocked that yet, so when he gets banged up again there's going to be some wailing

yeah the actual contempt seems clear cut to me, so this is just some bullshit prevaricating. weird how his fan club don't want to acknowledge that he could have caused a mistrial for the criminals he was so desperately trying to publicise

i suspect his fan club are not particularly interested in legal affairs other than as a mechanism by which the buggers can be sent back

Oh, save me from mid-list lifestyle journalists who are merely liberal.

So, does all that mean Morrissey was right?

(technically.....)

momentum have withdrawn support from willsman, lots of acrimony and splintering with everyone extremely certain they're right

I try not to comment on anti-semitism controversies, but, I find myself wondering: all these very right-wing and increasingly dangerous people like 'Tommy Robinson', Steve Bannon, the thugs who beat up the trade unionist the other week -- are they (openly / proudly) anti-semitic?

"I try not to comment on anti-semitism controversies"

goodness me, there is a lot of people out there tonight that need to do the same.

(xp) No doubt they would be if there weren't any Muslims about.

As it stands, I fully expect to see Tommy Robinson on a TV screen soon accusing Jeremy Corbyn of being anti-Semitic.

Anyone who thinks anti-semitism is more of a problem on the left than right is deluded. It's incongruous on the left, because it shows hypocrisy, but it's not leftists who are most likely to (on the lighter side) sharing 'happy merchant' memes, and ((())) people, nor (on the more sever side) attacking synagogues and defacing cemetaries etc. There are openly anti-semitic parties gaining power throughout Europe, with the support of the British/US right.

WHich is not to say that anti-semitism is not a problem on the left! It absolutely is, and I've long clashed with people because of it. Which is what is so incensing about the rightwing press atm, because they cover for people who do much worse every day, while I agree with them about it being a problem.

just heard a BBC correspondent on R4 say : "some people consider Tommy ShitForBrains treatment unfair" and then chucked in a Bannon quote about him being "the backbone of this country". The sooner these fuckos are part of the private rightwing press sector in more than just rep, the better. Are you supposed to ignore this game they are playing because David Attenborough hasn't popped his clogs yet and sometimes there is some good stuff on World Service? Fuck this organisation.

Last night, Maitlis covered the Times splash about Jeremy Corbyn’s Holocaust Day conference with the Times journalist there, and also with MP Louise Ellman there - and Ellman didn’t say she had attended the conference, which might have been helpful for one of the parties to point out (and on examination looks to have included groups or speakers who were victims of all sorts of genocides including the Holocaust). I find that super-dishonest.

Also really sick of gentiles who, based on their social media posting, had nothing whatsoever to say about anyone’s antisemitism before it became an issue to use against Corbyn.

I think I agree with Tom D above; this is the kind of thing I was thinking - that quite possibly, these 'new alt-Right' people, or whatever they are, will actually be found bellowing things like 'we are here to defend Jews against the appalling anti-semitism of the Left'.

I agree with Dowd that, as far as I can see, there is real and imminent danger from these people, not least because of the dollars supporting them. I don't think that the media is reporting on this danger responsibly, while it gets excited about other things.

This is fair enough, but it would be easier (or at least more obvious the bias) if there weren’t, for example, some at best foolish people in Barnet Momentum

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-party-antisemitism-momentum-barnet-jews-jeremy-corbyn-israel-a8473501.html

https://youtu.be/sHWvLFX6flU

^
unpleasant video of Steve Bannon calling himself a 'Proud Christian Zionist'.

I think I will leave this stuff alone again now.

weirdly enough no amount of pointing at right wing antisemites does anything to mitigate the damage being done to the Labour party by leftist antisemites

v gratifying to see heroic journalists finalling recognising the efforts of antisemites to damage the labour party after years of toiling in obscurity

the R4 Today show this morning: some dickhead giving a very objective and fair appraisal of Tommy Smith and Jordan Peterson talking about the "extreme left". I know I shouldn't listen to it, but I fall asleep to it at night and end up waking up in neo-fascism hour. Anyway, the UK media recently polled as the most untrustworthy in Europe, the BBC seem to be still trading on some old rep as the moderate voice of the Western powers or something. The next Labour government needs to privatise immediately, it's the one organisation in this country that Branson can get his grubby paws on with my blessing.

privatisation is never the answer, comrade

it's the kinder option to sending Humphrys and Keunssberg to a 5 year stint in a corrective hard labour colony!

Love too be lectured on the hard left by Jordan “cultural Marxism, no I don’t hear those dogs barking” Peterson.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2018/08/momentum-dump-peter-willsman-their-nec-slate-direct-defiance-jeremy-corbyn

I think we're probably only a few months away from a direct challenge to Corbyn from the left of the party. The fact that Momentum are now being openly critical of Corbyn's conduct (and rightly so) suggests a split on the horizon.

I heard someone say on the radio, without corroborating it, that even McDonnell had been critical of Corbyn. Which would have seemed very unlikely before this mess.

stoked for the madness when labour get torn apart by infighting just as the government finally, terminally shits the bed, the walls and the ceiling and a general election is called right before we exit europe

brb gonna stock up on tinned goods

and makeshift weapons

have to say the RW press have played this v well, just kept going, fudging nuance, driving everyone mad

The fact that Momentum are now being openly critical of Corbyn's conduct (and rightly so) suggests a split on the horizon.

They were in the spring as well; Lansman defended the code on C4 (and was robust in his arguments, I thought) but he also endorsed the original slate despite being present at the NEC meeting where the comments weee made. However, I suspect that Willsman is one of those people most organisations have where they’ve just given up on him? Idk there’s a lot going on.

John McDonnell’s health isn’t great so who knows if he’d challenge but really amusing to see people to whom he was anathema a few weeks ago rallying around him.

McDonnell and Corbyn as I understand it have always been very close and I see that story of any kind of split as a Blair-Brown fantasy. The splits within Momentum due to last night's decision will mean that some of the cranks will leave (and given some of the tweets I read last night its for the best).

Ultimately this is -- while not silly season -- not a huge deal. I can't see a challenge because: 1) Brexit will keep everyone nice and 2) sad to say, not enough people care about racism to have the grown-up conversations in the first place. The issue will rumble on because of Israel/Palestine creating the odd uncomfortable week for Labour internally. No more than that.

I think we're probably only a few months away from a direct challenge to Corbyn from the left of the party. The fact that Momentum are now being openly critical of Corbyn's conduct (and rightly so) suggests a split on the horizon.

there are a lot of Corbyn supporters on twitter very angry about Momentum ditching Willsman, threatening to cancel their Momentum membership, accusing Lansman of being a traitor etc. Ifind it hard to get a sense of how representative they are of the wider Corbyn-project-supporting Labour membership, but I think they're probably more representative than the faction of left twitter that is supporting Momentum's position (there 4 digit follower count New Socialist and Vice magazine adjacent ppl who are more prominent than the cranks, but probably less representative?).

If there was a serious split between the ppl in Momentum who recognise that anti-semitism is a real issue and the Skwarkbox/Chris Williamson/George Galloway faction then I think there are more of the latter (or certainly more ppl who would go with that side if Corbyn himself signaled his support for them?) Maybe there's a potential majority made up of those anti-crank Corbynites and soft-left Labour members who are sceptical of the hard left, but willing to work with them against the cranks?

there are a lot of Corbyn supporters on twitter very angry about Momentum ditching Willsman, threatening to cancel their Momentum membership, accusing Lansman of being a traitor etc

Good, off they trot then.