Viva hate: the worst Tory big beast

I went for Cameron - as someone else said, he's the one who worked to make the party electable in the first place, then installed all the others in places where they could hurt people, then (and this was inherent to the 'electable' part) decided to go along with the EU referendum condition in his contract with the insane eurosceptics

He's like the keystone in the arch. Cannot imagine them being elected without him being there, standing there like a semi-reasonable manager you speak to for five minutes a week, for the creeps and wackos to hide behind

Who's actually fucked things up the most = Cameron. Who could potentially fuck things up the most if ever given the chance = Johnson.

I agree with this about Cameron. He no longer seems quite the foulest of the set, given the competition, but it's true that causally he has probably done the most damage.

I agree that BJ's mugs are not very good. And is that his 2nd or 3rd home? (Apart from the FCO one he has been taking from the taxpayer?)

There is something strangely sinister and bullying about the way he repeatedly says 'You can have a cup of tea' regardless of what they say to him.

I think that May didn't seem awkward, sad, etc, until she was PM -- in fact, until the day after the 2017 election. Or maybe during the campaign ('nothing has changed') if you prefer. But as Home Secretary, person who talked about 'nasty party' in 2002, she never seemed to have awkwardness or pathos at all. She has come to occupy that persona as she has come under greater personal scrutiny.

The locks on the FCO one have presumably been changed by now.

Or maybe during the campaign

Definitely during the campaign
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/apr/30/andrew-marr-theresa-may-voters-soundbites-robotic

http://cyberneticzoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/131114171215-eric-robot-richards-tea-horizontal-large-gallery-x640.jpg
May wowing party activists at Thornhill Cricket club circa '17, you had to be there .. apparently.

Cameron's just the anti-Blair in this regard, anything popular that might happen, Blair's face was all over it, regardless of whether he'd had anything to do with the policy in the first place. Ministers were often crowded out.

Because Cameron knew that so much of what he was planning would be unpopular, he had a very convenient zeal for restoring proper Cabinet government. Osborne isn't any worse than Cameron because Cameron was behind him every step of the way, it was his programme.

I actually have a tiny sliver more respect for Osborne because he didn't join in the Islamophobic baiting of Sadiq Khan before the Mayoral election, and Cameron did, playing politics with the same forces that would destroy his career like a month or two later.

osborne got the public to buy into his narrative justifying austerity which caused more suffering than anything the rest have done. he knew exactly what he was doing. the others are gargoyles which make better tv but he's the most insidious.

But Osborne dealt in a different type of hate-speak, and for many it was just as vile as the Islamophobic dog whistle. And the massive cuts he had sewn into UC were pretty much his own doing, albeit under the wider remit of Cameron's austerity agenda. I might be wrong, but I think he had some wiggle room there. And what made him more hateful for me was some of the lame arch-Remoaners praise for him, as a brave armchair archer taking hypocritical shots at his own shambolic party's next shambolic phase, from the safety of his LES office.

Oh yeah definitely to all of that, I suppose the point I'm making isa that this was all the Cameron project as much as the Osborne project, they're inseparable when it comes to making the case for austerity because they both did so much of it. Suspect that Cameron was actually more effective because he was so much more palatable to the electorate than Osborne was.

I like how Philip Hammond has been Chancellor of the Exchequer for years and is completely absent from both this poll and this conversation.

he almost seems a decent sort by comparison

as with any tory, until you see his voting record

He's too boring to think about.

the lol geek spreadsheet Phil image the party tries to cultivate, seems quite incongruous with the glimpses of real Hammond when he goes off topic and reveals himself to be an absolute grade a twat (female train drivers etc). He's basically a weak as piss non-entity who'd be long gone by now if May even had a teeny sprinkling of party authority. I'd forgotten that May started her '17 election with a hilariously dull, twin grey press conference with Hammond, and never tried that one again!

I'd forgotten that May started her '17 election with a hilariously dull, twin grey press conference with Hammond, and never tried that one again!

http://78.media.tumblr.com/90c8f20ed30b54fc8e4d4aa5adb76c84/tumblr_mi52chcpCD1s2gg27o1_250.gif

It genuinely shocks me the visceral hatred I have or these "people", and the joy I can imagine myself gleaning from their being pummelled with baseball bats. I shall dance the most fearsome jig for each of them I outlive.

She does better with Arthur Askey next to her.

she already seems to know enough about the rudiments of pantomime.

Oh no she doesn't!

(soz)

Just thinking about the 80s, this conversation wouldn't have had legs back then: pretty much all the hatred was directed at Thatcher. How much this was down to the force of her own character and how much to her being a (gendered?) lightning rod for all anti-Tory antipathy I'm not sure. Who got angry at Douglas Hurd and Geoffrey Howe?? I can't really think of anyone else who was a hate figure except Tebbit. Maybe there was some niche antipathy towards Keith Joseph.

there was Heseltine and the small matter of the destruction of the mining industry, though admittedly Thatcher was instrumental in that too

Lawson? Brittan? Heseltine maybe?

Thatcher’s model was presidential. She was keen to make it clear the cabinet was subservient to her. Any praise or hatred directed towards anyone else would be wasted.

Tebbit, to some extent. Maybe Lawson, not convinced though. With Thatcher around there wasn't much hate left over.

(xp) Yes, that's it. Presidential or dictatorial (image if not reality), take your pick.

It's a mistake to not include JRM, who, right now, wields more power and could do a lot more damage, even without a ministerial post, than Gove, for example.

Also, where's Jeremy Hunt?

there were deep-cut outliers for nerds:
https://theneedleblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/sir-keith-joseph-and-rhodes-boyson.jpg

words have meaning, jeremy hunt is not a big beast

I hated them all and I still do.

Cecil Parkinson, Francis Pym, St. John Stevas, Jim Prior, Kenneth Baker, Norman Fowler. Avuncular old Willie Whitelaw. All of them. I suppose I'm at an age where this lot seemed like actual monsters, where (eg) Major's 1992 cabinet seemed vile and venal.

If Gove is then Hunt is.

I believe Thatch was a lightning rod for all those (good list, tim) that wanted to impose their will and could convince herself that it was all her idea. They weren't bothered about taking the credit for a successful implementation, just so long as it actually happened. (and with things like the Poll tax, they could point to the 'fall guy' and say it wasn't me it was her..

Whereas Brexit has so many wearing the "It was me wot wun it" badges..

gove is not and never will be a big beast this is canon

― mark s, Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:49 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Being the son of a teacher; Kenneth Baker is high up is the beastiary. Some of my earliest (possibly misremembered) memories are being taken on baker day marches.

*galaxy brain* Rather do one for the Labour Party - need to direct my hate at the people that will try and sabotage the road to socialism.

I haven't thought about Councillor Rhodes Boyson (Lab) in a long time. What a weird character.

Do it! But bear in mind there are very, very few 'big beasts' in Labour right now

there was only ever one:
https://conradbrunstrom.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/healey.jpg

what about The Beast of Bolsover?

I don't think doing a Labour one is going to be very interesting really, just another opportunity to give people the opportunity to say the same things they always say. At least when you're polling the Tories you're polling people who have actually done things.

I mean unless you're polling Blair, Prescott, Brown etc and no one needs to go over that again.

Just imagine the vitriol we could pour on Yvette Cooper though

Yeah I wouldn't do it. We have covered much of that and there'll be lots of opportunity. xp

One if those polls where whoever wins will be the right answer.

Dithering between Bojo, Cameron and Gideon however special mention for May who makes me embarrassed to be a Brit with the Trump hand holding, Grenfell evasiveness and kowtowing to the Royals in the most servile manner possible. That’s before we even get to her dismal handling of the Brexit negotiations.

♬ all small beasts should have bows in their tails ♬

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/b1/0b/10/b10b105e6651bf8cedc96747a0d9baae--moomin-books-moomin-valley.jpg

Wondrous discovery of the day is that the no-doubt bestselling book 'British Politics For Dummies' actually has a section on Big Beasts!

how did you find this out?

Here you go

So it turns out no one is a big beast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vhYIZTtIhU

i did v much enjoy Paulin pretending to be baffled by popular culture

naming some tweecore band after him probably a shade unfair to the lad

alba proven the gove voter as proven by science*

*the science of liking allison pearson

Don't blame me, I voted Cameron!

tweecore bandmember once a prominent ilxor: i will not shame her as she is an irl friend

good late reviewers: bonnie greer maybe
i can't decide: tom paulin, paul morley
bad: everyone else
worst: john harris

hard to think of any situation where those last three words won't hold true

Time for another poll?

crucial new ruling

"conservative big beasts"
About 209 results (0.31 seconds)
"tory big beasts"
About 6,270 results (0.36 seconds)

"labour big beasts"
About 12,700 results (0.51 seconds)

John Harris is fine. He's got a good heart.

He was really mean to his brother when I saw them running a quiz together once.

I hate him.

John Harris is fine. He's got a good heart.

Unlike the poor old Tin Man.

http://thewizardofozblog.typepad.com/.a/6a014e8b29c8c3970d01a3fcf5cefb970b-600wi

JH wrote a really shit, and myopically smug and London-centric opinion piece on autism that made me want to throttle the cunt, earlier this year!

he writes a lot of really shit, myopically smug, London-centric opinion pieces, i don't see why he'd be any better on neurodiversity

he's fine.

(when he's slipped on a dog shit and broke both of his ankles) he's fine with me as well!

would anyone care to change their vote

she's next-levelled this

Proud member of the OG8 here, not changing now of course.
I have zero respect for Boris, but not sure how he could possibly have done a worse job. Not sure how any living organism on the planet could have done a worse job.

Then again, if MPs shit themselves into passing her deal at the 11th hour, she'll be the new Robert the Bruce spider for centuries to come

NB I don't think this is very likely