Viva hate: the worst Tory big beast

Oh no she doesn't!

(soz)

Just thinking about the 80s, this conversation wouldn't have had legs back then: pretty much all the hatred was directed at Thatcher. How much this was down to the force of her own character and how much to her being a (gendered?) lightning rod for all anti-Tory antipathy I'm not sure. Who got angry at Douglas Hurd and Geoffrey Howe?? I can't really think of anyone else who was a hate figure except Tebbit. Maybe there was some niche antipathy towards Keith Joseph.

there was Heseltine and the small matter of the destruction of the mining industry, though admittedly Thatcher was instrumental in that too

Lawson? Brittan? Heseltine maybe?

Thatcher’s model was presidential. She was keen to make it clear the cabinet was subservient to her. Any praise or hatred directed towards anyone else would be wasted.

Tebbit, to some extent. Maybe Lawson, not convinced though. With Thatcher around there wasn't much hate left over.

(xp) Yes, that's it. Presidential or dictatorial (image if not reality), take your pick.

It's a mistake to not include JRM, who, right now, wields more power and could do a lot more damage, even without a ministerial post, than Gove, for example.

Also, where's Jeremy Hunt?

there were deep-cut outliers for nerds:
https://theneedleblog.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/sir-keith-joseph-and-rhodes-boyson.jpg

words have meaning, jeremy hunt is not a big beast

I hated them all and I still do.

Cecil Parkinson, Francis Pym, St. John Stevas, Jim Prior, Kenneth Baker, Norman Fowler. Avuncular old Willie Whitelaw. All of them. I suppose I'm at an age where this lot seemed like actual monsters, where (eg) Major's 1992 cabinet seemed vile and venal.

If Gove is then Hunt is.

I believe Thatch was a lightning rod for all those (good list, tim) that wanted to impose their will and could convince herself that it was all her idea. They weren't bothered about taking the credit for a successful implementation, just so long as it actually happened. (and with things like the Poll tax, they could point to the 'fall guy' and say it wasn't me it was her..

Whereas Brexit has so many wearing the "It was me wot wun it" badges..

gove is not and never will be a big beast this is canon

― mark s, Sunday, August 12, 2018 12:49 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Being the son of a teacher; Kenneth Baker is high up is the beastiary. Some of my earliest (possibly misremembered) memories are being taken on baker day marches.

*galaxy brain* Rather do one for the Labour Party - need to direct my hate at the people that will try and sabotage the road to socialism.

I haven't thought about Councillor Rhodes Boyson (Lab) in a long time. What a weird character.

Do it! But bear in mind there are very, very few 'big beasts' in Labour right now

there was only ever one:
https://conradbrunstrom.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/healey.jpg

what about The Beast of Bolsover?

I don't think doing a Labour one is going to be very interesting really, just another opportunity to give people the opportunity to say the same things they always say. At least when you're polling the Tories you're polling people who have actually done things.

I mean unless you're polling Blair, Prescott, Brown etc and no one needs to go over that again.

Just imagine the vitriol we could pour on Yvette Cooper though

Yeah I wouldn't do it. We have covered much of that and there'll be lots of opportunity. xp

One if those polls where whoever wins will be the right answer.

Dithering between Bojo, Cameron and Gideon however special mention for May who makes me embarrassed to be a Brit with the Trump hand holding, Grenfell evasiveness and kowtowing to the Royals in the most servile manner possible. That’s before we even get to her dismal handling of the Brexit negotiations.

♬ all small beasts should have bows in their tails ♬

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/b1/0b/10/b10b105e6651bf8cedc96747a0d9baae--moomin-books-moomin-valley.jpg

Wondrous discovery of the day is that the no-doubt bestselling book 'British Politics For Dummies' actually has a section on Big Beasts!

how did you find this out?

Here you go

So it turns out no one is a big beast.

Gove would also fail the BPfD big beasts test so we should consider the matter settled.

as a tru 80s kid i definitely had plenty of hate left in reserve for individual cabinet members

tho tbf i wd've probably used the phrase "Dickensian grotesques" rather than monsters

That would surely have been more accurate but to me at the time they seemed more terrifying and unbeatable than that - particularly in the context of nukes obv.

what is the etymology of 'big beasts' used in this particular context? most of the earliest references I can find are to Michael Heseltine and are riffing on the 'tarzan' nickname, but does it go further back?

I don't know but when I first became aware of the phrase (ISTR in relation to Heseltine but that's not a reliable memory) it always seemed to be prefixed with the word "lumbering".

Rhodes-Boyson and Tebbit always reminded me of baddies out of Oliver Twist, these fuckers had their own phenotype

as a tru 80s kid i (...) wd've probably used the phrase "Dickensian grotesques" rather than monsters

https://www.reactiongifs.us/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nevermind_nathan_fillion.gif

precocious 15 year-old literature boy? absolutely

'the political jungle' is obv a metaphor that goes a long way back, but I feel like 'big beasts' is a more recent thing

the UK political jungle circa 1985:

https://i.imgur.com/RyApXH2.png

also wrote lists of bad puns of their names on the cover of my school rough book

i remember looking this up the first time this discussion was had (discussion = "gove is NOT a big beast how can we nail this down", this = when "big beast" first used in this sense)

sadly i can't remember what i googled or what the conclusion was, and am having no luck now

i'm p sure it was used in the 80s tho

Partridge's dictionary of slang has the phrase first noted in the year 2000 but that seems to recent to me also.

too recent obviously

ok lol i found a mid-60s political usage which involves healey but actually refers to a fighter airplane

woot a.j.p.taylor called lloyd george the "big beast of the forest" in English History 1914-1945 pub.1964

the forest?!

tho i think he's quoting someone from lloyd george's own day

Wilson's cabinet in the 60s was stuffed full of big beasts - I think that put subsequent PMs off the idea for a while.

Then again, if MPs shit themselves into passing her deal at the 11th hour, she'll be the new Robert the Bruce spider for centuries to come

NB I don't think this is very likely