Better Call Saul

We are supposed to accept it cause in this world everyone who isn’t an idiot is a genius. Gus was portrayed as virtually omnipotent in bb!

I never got the complaint about the brock thing either. We’ve seen Walter pull off so many outlandish stunts by that point that it’s not exactly difficult to swallow that he managed to put some berries in a dumb kid’s food or something. I’m sure that writers’ room would have come up with something if they intended to show it to us, but that would have ruined the reveal. At its heart breaking bad is genre fiction and it thrives on unlikely convolutions, but it takes way fewer short cuts than most shows of this type

I mean a guy who left work as a professional scientist and was working as a high school teacher was able to jump into meth cooking and within a short period somehow come up with product that was better than what an established cartel was working on

I'm perfectly fine with unlikely convolutions--in fact, I demand them--as long as they're depicted in an exciting and understandable way. Nacho's scheme with the pills was unlikely, but it was riveting to see how he pulled it off.

On the other hand, it's no fun at all for the show to say, in effect, "we've shown you that this character can do all kinds of devious things, just give us this one". The whole reason it's fun is because we get to see how they do it. It's better to be shown than told.

(And it wouldn't have ruined the reveal for Brock's poisoning to be explained after the fact.)

I mean a guy who left work as a professional scientist and was working as a high school teacher was able to jump into meth cooking and within a short period somehow come up with product that was better than what an established cartel was working on

Well sure, but that's just the conceit of the show. Some people are extremely brilliant in a way that their station in life doesn't reflect. I don't need a scientific explanation of Walt's chemistry genius any more than I need a neurological explanation of how Jimmy is such a good con artist. But once the conceit is established, I want the plot to make sense, or so help me god, I'll post mildly-worded complaints online.

Don't forget: one of Gus's guys was watching Nacho when he chucked the pills into the river. I don't know what he saw exactly, but he was presumably keeping an eye on him for a reason.

(Sorry, though: Brock thing still bugs me to this day. It's like marveling at the intricacy of a Goldberg machine and noticing a box haphazardly stuck in the middle with 'JUST TRUST ME ON THIS PART' scrawled on its side.)

I barely remember who Brock is

Can we talk about Jimmy’s job interview... I nearly stood up and clapped I was so in love with how that played out.

Also characterwise an awesome illustration of the push & pull within him

yeah, it was a fantastic demonstration of the crossroads he's at now. use his skills for good? or bad, or neutral? use them at all without the chance for personal aggrandisement? support and be in service to Kim, or tear her down through jealousy / incidentally via his own hubris? he WANTS to do the "right" thing for her, and freed from the burden of his care for / anger at Chuck, there's the chance to dedicate himself to somebody who actually returns his love, but he has never learnt how to do that, and always always always wants recognition for his cleverness. when he was doing the elder law, getting the genuine positive feedback from his clients was neeearly enough to fill that need... but selling a machine to businesses isn't going to cut it.

also, of course, it was a parallel to Mike: going into a business and telling them how they're fucking up. but Mike can cast that as a + for both parties, and for Jimmy it brings contempt for both. I'm in no hurry to see Saul come into being*, but it was nice to have that little setup for their narratives coming back together next week.


*bcz there's no way that can bode well for Kim

It just made me feel sad because they were completely average people who don’t need to harden their lives for scammers

I mean, everyone is a target of scamming but their stakes here were low, and it’s evidence of him turning his eye for seeing vulnerability into a complete disdain for human weakness. His scheme he is calling Mike about is stealing their collectibles off the shelf! If Mike even opts in, he’s going to be rolling his eyes.

i loved Kim’s scene with Howard too, he looked like he was gonna pee himself by the time she walked outta there!!

I'm hoping the Hummels just inspired some other scheme in Jimmy's mind, wld hate it if he's just doing job interviews to case places

yeah me too

Scene with Kim going Dark Phoenix on Howard was AMAZING.

(And it wouldn't have ruined the reveal for Brock's poisoning to be explained after the fact.)

The lily-of-the-valley reveal is literally the final shot of season 4! When is this apparently necessary ex post facto here’s-how-he-did-it scene meant to take place, at the beginning of the next season? Who cares at that point?

would this show be understandable if you never watched breaking bad?

With a bare minimum amount of intro, I'd say yeah.

Yes, absolutely. There are moments where the context of what's to come adds some texture to what's taking place but I don't think it's anything insurmountable. There are scant flash-forward scenes of Saul post-Breaking Bad that might get a little lost in translation (it might help a touch to know how he wound up where he is in the present day), but there's very little in those scenes that directly references the previous show.

Like, "Here's the story of how a guy named Jimmy McGill became a guy named Saul Goodman. Have at it." And that's just because the show isn't called Better Call Jimmy. xp to self

Wrt the present-day scenes, if you know that he's been a lawyer in the past and that he's now working at a Cinnabon under a fake name, you may be able to piece together the whys and wherefores on your own based on the character's progression on BCS.

The lily-of-the-valley reveal is literally the final shot of season 4! When is this apparently necessary ex post facto here’s-how-he-did-it scene meant to take place, at the beginning of the next season? Who cares at that point?

I don't know, man. I'm just saying it could have been explained without "spoiling the reveal" because it could have been explained after the reveal. I'm sure some other changes would have to have been made to accommodate this idea in an elegant way. But I would have preferred it, I think, because I like to know how all the schemes are done.

I think, if anything, the existence of BCS makes me more exasperated about the Brock handwaving. Saul was directly involved in the poisoning of a child. I need more than 'this happened...somehow!' I mean, I know I'll never get it, and that's okay, but still.

(To expand on that thought: after having spent half a decade focusing on Jimmy/Saul as a fully fleshed-out human being, the idea of Saul's casual involvement in something like that bothers me even more when we have basically no idea of how it actually went down/how aware he was of what he was doing/etc.)

going to SB anyone who says "Brock" in this thread now

It's basically like someone on Mork & Mindy casually mentioning that Fonzie gutted a shopkeeper.

basically exactly

lol ok sorry you guys had to use your imagination that once, I think the mechanism of how a child was tricked into eating some berries is the least important part of that plot point

Saul is a slimy coward in bb and his small part in the scheme was explained, a scene explaining how Walt delivered the poison wouldn’t change any questions about how to square jimmy with Saul what even is this goalpost shifting

Brock

BRB, I'm going to propose a Brock spin-off to Gilligan. I'll let y'all know the premiere date ASAP.

(In all seriousness, I have a heightened sensitivity to the plight of kids even in a fictional context, and I will admit to having fretted more than a few times about what became of Brock after what happened to his mother.)

With a bare minimum amount of intro, I'd say yeah.

I don't think you need any intro at all. You might even be better off without it.

Any extended Brock discussion needs to go to the Breaking Bad thread ASAP

why bcz this digression is now a) pretty off-topic and b) boring the fuck out of me

mainly bcz b) tho

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/4a/06/f74a06cf26ed5b5e5644ee2233ae1987.jpg

I don't think you need any intro at all. You might even be better off without it.

Absolutely. It's a better show than Breaking Bad, and probably less stressful / more exciting to watch not knowing anything about where some characters may or may not end up

The tensest scene in this one involved a standoff between two parties, one of which we know survives! I’d actually be really interested to see reactions from someone who hadn’t seen bb

The one thing that might be tough about watching BCS first is getting through the long stretches where Mike and Jimmy don't interact. But maybe just knowing that it's a prequel series would be enough to give you faith that it all pays off in the end.

It would be kind of perversely hilarious if BCS were to kill off a BB character.

Noah Hawley told Gould they should just abandon Breaking Bad and never have Jimmy turn into Saul Goodman

that would be cool but also pls don't take storytelling tips from noah hawley, mr gould

My inlaws have been watching this on Netflix over the past few weeks and love it; neither had see Breaking Bad and had no idea that BCS was related in any way.

Needs a spin-off called Brocking Bad imo

^ Gets it.

IDK if it's "misophonia," or if it's entirely rational that I can't stand hearing other people's mouth/eating noises (esp close-mic'd), but tonight's episode was particularly horrible in that regard.

The one thing that might be tough about watching BCS first is getting through the long stretches where Mike and Jimmy don't interact. But maybe just knowing that it's a prequel series would be enough to give you faith that it all pays off in the end.

It would feel extremely disjointed if you didn't have any idea where it was going, like two or three different shows where the main protagonists barely see each other. If it was a standalone show they'd have got Jimmy more heavily involved in the drugs stuff way earlier.

The show in general still feels over-reliant on the audience knowing where it's going but the new season feels a lot less padded out and less dependant on 'OMG it's him!' moments. Killing Chuck probably a wise move at this stage but I wonder whether that was the plan all along.

The problem that won't go away is that other than Odenkirk/Banks (who barely share screen time) there still isn't much in the way of onscreen chemistry between any of the actors - and BB had this in spades. Rhea Seehorn is brilliant in this but I still don't believe in Kim and Jimmy as a couple. Nacho/Gus has potential.

It's looking likely that things will not work out well for Kim

:(

Nice to see Gale again but very fanservicey. This season feels a little directionless with Chuck gone.

Hands up who thought the rent-a-burglar would turn out to be Badger or Skinny Pete.

*Raises hand*

I thought for sure it would be someone we'd seen from BB, yeah. Huell maybe.

Nice to see Gale again but very fanservicey. This season feels a little directionless with Chuck gone.

I thought for sure it would be someone we'd seen from BB, yeah.

it was

(looks it up) Ah well. I wouldn't have recognized/remembered that dude even if he hadn't spent his entire appearance in this episode traipsing around in the dark.

Yeah totally didn’t catch that! That’s the first breaking bad recurrence that’s passed me by, but tbf all the characters from that set are kinda anonymous except for Todd & uncle jack