spiritually awake
― the late great, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:09 (five years ago) link
― the late great, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:10 (five years ago) link
derp sorry
spiritually awake, the straight to dvd sequel to beetlejuice
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:15 (five years ago) link
How much meaning and fulfillment, if any, do spiritual practices, such as meditation, provide you?
meditation is not a spiritual practice
― macropuente (map), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:16 (five years ago) link
not all would agree C/D: "I'm not religious but I am spiritual."
― Karl Malone, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:23 (five years ago) link
i get that it comes from a spiritual tradition but it doesn't have to be attached to that at all, and i really hate how anything a step or two above eating, shitting and sleeping in the category of caring for oneself as a living being gets labeled as "spiritual"
― macropuente (map), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:23 (five years ago) link
solidly secular. i figured almost everyone itt would be too, very interesting. i don't even consider myself to be staunchly atheist (which is how I would describe my wife's views) but I still feel closer to believing there is no higher power than there is one.
― evol j, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:25 (five years ago) link
yeah, I don't consider myself an atheist but an agnostic, in the sense that I have no idea what the hell is going to happen when I die but none of the options seem appealing
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:26 (five years ago) link
life is incredibly weird, contradictory, multivalent, complex, etc. and turning towards spiritual explanations for existence, which are always historical/social constructs, is a way to avoid facing life's full, always-unfolding mystery, exactly because those ideas claim to be above it.
― macropuente (map), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:32 (five years ago) link
well, sure, in a broad sense, but it can all be distilled down to the fact that the thought of losing consciousness forever is terrifying and impossible for the mind to process so they come up with something, anything, not to have to do it
or else there's a god and I'm going to hell for saying that
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:33 (five years ago) link
haha. it's kind of a mystery to me why people are so terrified of it tbh. i mean i'm scared of losing consciousness too but not enough to invent a bunch of bullshit because of it.
― macropuente (map), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:35 (five years ago) link
religion resister, i like mountains
― devvvine, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:37 (five years ago) link
some nights I can hardly sleep from fear of relinquishing consciousness
― fuck giving a bear beer (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:37 (five years ago) link
Needs an option beyond "solidly secular" like "actively hostile to religion."
― Moves like Javert (Ye Mad Puffin), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:38 (five years ago) link
the thought of being conscious forever is much worse than death
― ogmor, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:46 (five years ago) link
it's not a great thought, particularly with the world getting worse and global warming being a thing that exists, but at least I can conceptualize what it will be like to be conscious for it
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:50 (five years ago) link
whereas it's not possible to conceptualize the alternative. "oh, it's like sleeping" -- we don't experience sleep, we experience waking up, which won't happen. we experience dreams, which also don't happen without a conscious mind.
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:51 (five years ago) link
There is no way all of this is just atoms smashing together
― š¦ (TrĻµĻµship), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:52 (five years ago) link
https://shaneraymond.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/mao-kundun1.jpg
― ( Ķ”ā ĶŹ Ķ”ā) (jim in vancouver), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:54 (five years ago) link
ā Moves like Javert (Ye Mad Puffin), 4. september 2018 22:38 (fourteen minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I thought that was what 'Religion Resister' means? Which is the second worst opinion, btw, better than 'God-and-Country Believer' but slightly worse than 'Spiritually Awake'
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:58 (five years ago) link
under a christian framework that just means you are resisting the call of jesus christ to have a personal relationship with you or some shit like that
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 20:59 (five years ago) link
there's still religions other than Christianity, some of them are even quite popular~
― faculty w1fe (silby), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:01 (five years ago) link
And getting more popular all the time. Unlike Christianity.
― Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:02 (five years ago) link
not mine though. Anyway as I said in that thread linked above I'm religious but not spiritual.
― faculty w1fe (silby), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:04 (five years ago) link
well I almost never remember my dreams but even so, I'm keenly aware of my existence as the exception not the norm. I recognise how dependent and linked my consciousness is to what's going on around me, I am aware of it changing and I've seen it gradually decay in other people. I remember seeing death as this huge yawning oblivion but that seems nonsensically solipsistic to me now
― ogmor, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:05 (five years ago) link
sure, but as mentioned above this quiz is clearly devised under a Christian and specifically Protestant framework even as it makes token efforts to expand it beyond one
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:06 (five years ago) link
xp -- it's the opposite of solipsism. there is no self to conceive of anything. there is no "conceiving" because the bodily functions necessary to bring that about aren't happening about. to which the natural question is: so then what?
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:08 (five years ago) link
I imagine when we're dead we'll feel pretty much like we felt before we were born
― the late great, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:10 (five years ago) link
iirc that wasn't so bad
solidly secular obv
― lee guacamole (darraghmac), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:12 (five years ago) link
xp i mean before we were conceived, not referring to sensations in the womb
― the late great, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:12 (five years ago) link
the idea that ignorant literalism is the purest sort of religious faith should always be challenged
otm. maimonides points out something that should be obvious. do you know how we know the bible isn't literal? bc it talks about god's hands. god doesn't have hands bc he's not corporeal. so we know the bible talks in metaphor and therefore dot dot dot. ppl who are textual literalists are traditionally incoherent.
also i got sunday stalwart and like shakes i say fuck that sunday is a hero to most but doesn't mean
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:12 (five years ago) link
xp those conceptions predate me, I am just hosting them for a while
― ogmor, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:12 (five years ago) link
how do we know god doesnt have hands
― lee guacamole (darraghmac), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:18 (five years ago) link
a line I've heard from some p well-informed clergy is that belief as a sort of truth-claim is a fairly recent invention and is at least somewhat incommensurable with how 'believe' (& its equivs in other languages) was used back in the day (i.e. the "i believe in you" sense is older). i am inclined to believe something similar wrt sincerity but i cba looking into it
― ogmor, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:18 (five years ago) link
(xp) He has legs, according to Alan Partridge. Gas legs.
― Scottish Country Twerking (Tom D.), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:19 (five years ago) link
xxp well i do know christians have a problem w/ that idea too iirc
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:20 (five years ago) link
well Reb Yeshuah had hands, anyway
― faculty w1fe (silby), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:22 (five years ago) link
where I grew up the bar was not just "believe" the bar was "believe and have a personal relationship with." and supposedly if you just asked, the latter would happen. spoilers: I did ask, and it didn't happen
― aloha darkness my old friend (katherine), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:23 (five years ago) link
(this would have been in my teens)
I suppose "believe and have a personal relationship with" is closer to the original meaning, as in, trust in god, some degree of selflessness
― ogmor, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:25 (five years ago) link
[I imagine when we're dead we'll feel pretty much like we felt before we were born
hey this is MY line
― Īį½ĻĪ¹Ļ, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:28 (five years ago) link
xp in monotheistic religions that is imo absolutely colored with "have no other gods" - not sure about the role of "belief" in non-monotheistic faiths
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:30 (five years ago) link
Yāall explaining this quiz to each other and complaining about its obvious Christian bias? Itās a multiple choice test! Pick the best answer, not the right answer, is what Iām trying to say. Iām solidly secular and kinda disappointed that it didnāt have follow-on questions like āis this all just atoms bouncing aroundā (yes) or āis free will a thingā (almost definitely not) because I bet less than 17% are with me there
― Paleo Weltschmerz (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:36 (five years ago) link
āis free will a thingā (almost definitely not)
argh the ILX poll on this question drove me *nuts* (and I agree w you, btw)
― Īį½ĻĪ¹Ļ, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:39 (five years ago) link
xp yeah but there have been so many instances in which nominally monotheistic religions have been lax abt ppl worshipping, paying tribute to or otherwise focusing on particular subdivisions, incarnations etc. of god not to mention spirits of animals & ancestors, idols, saints and so on that i find the exclusivity claims hard to take too seriously
― ogmor, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:44 (five years ago) link
or āis free will a thingā (almost definitely not) because I bet less than 17% are with me there
ā Paleo Weltschmerz (El Tomboto), Tuesday, September 4, 2018 5:36 PM (eleven minutes ago)
This is the worst. Free will is a thing
― š¦ (TrĻµĻµship), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:49 (five years ago) link
yeah, an imaginary thing
― Īį½ĻĪ¹Ļ, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 21:50 (five years ago) link
Virtue ethics and deontological ethics are the ones I like, just donāt ask me to ground them. Existentialism is preferable to determinism because at least there is freedom in the void.
― š¦ (TrĻµĻµship), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 22:03 (five years ago) link
ā Mordy, 4. september 2018 23:12 (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
Or it could be that different parts of the bible were written by different people, and it's not so much metaphorical as it is incoherent and contradictory.
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 22:06 (five years ago) link
Oh yeah this is the stuff
― Paleo Weltschmerz (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 22:11 (five years ago) link
free will is not a thing
― lee guacamole (darraghmac), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 22:11 (five years ago) link
sike i chose to type that
xxxp textual literalists believe that the entire bible is coherent + true so i'm not that's as exculpatory as u imagine
― Mordy, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 22:12 (five years ago) link
Oh, I have no wish to excuse textual literalists :)
― Frederik B, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 22:13 (five years ago) link
lol dmac
― Īį½ĻĪ¹Ļ, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 22:18 (five years ago) link
pi is 3
i appreciate this is marginally less useless than most surveys of religious belief but i think its worth thinking about to whom these are the distinctions that make a difference.
the idea that, say, all secular ppl will have more in common with each other than they will with certain theists is rubbish. esp given that ppls beliefs change and that its often quite subtle or minor shifts in overall worldview that wld move them up or down this scale, or at least, the differences are overstated.
and ofc, my favourite point for all discussions: a lot of ppl don't really know what they think. not just agnosticism; uncertainty and the inability to express these ideas are integral to all(?) religious traditions. ppl 'suddenly' changing their minds and so on, all manner of outside influences both at the individual and collective level.
― ogmor, Tuesday, 4 September 2018 22:19 (five years ago) link
the Pew Center isn't here for your shades of gray, they are here to generate a foundation of facts.
― Paleo Weltschmerz (El Tomboto), Tuesday, 4 September 2018 22:26 (five years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.
― System, Monday, 10 September 2018 00:01 (five years ago) link
I got solidly secular "along with 17% of the public" bloody hell. Are there really that few nonreligious people in the US? I feel like if you did this poll in my environs I'd be in around a 40% or more group.
― Stoop Crone (Trayce), Monday, 10 September 2018 01:34 (five years ago) link
"Religious Resister", which is horseshit if you aren't equating religion with Christianity as these fuckers appear to be.
― Three Word Username, Monday, 10 September 2018 10:02 (five years ago) link
Because Christianity is the only religious worth resisting?
I got solidly secular, as expected, though I'd say it's only 90% accurate.
― pomenitul, Monday, 10 September 2018 10:17 (five years ago) link
There needs to be an āaggressively atheistā category, but itās a pretty poorly constructed poll.
― American Fear of Pranksterism (Ed), Monday, 10 September 2018 10:20 (five years ago) link
NB the categories are just clusters of ppl who answered similarly to the questions in the survey that were induced by data+clustering method+chosen # of clusters. The names are post hoc and might as well be A, B, Cā¦
― faculty w1fe (silby), Monday, 10 September 2018 13:14 (five years ago) link
I knew I was solidly secular before I took the quiz and that is the result I got. Very clear answers, no waffling at all. Easy.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Monday, 10 September 2018 13:21 (five years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Tuesday, 11 September 2018 00:01 (five years ago) link
yawn
― faculty w1fe (silby), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 00:02 (five years ago) link
i feel pretty good about my result -- my mom literally raised me to believe that one could be a good and moral person and not belong to any religion. she is in her 70s now and i think is fairly radical for her generation in her commitment to secular values (my dad too but that's another story) solidly secular is how i would have described myself at any point in my life.
i think this is a fine result -- did anyone expect religious zeal?
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Tuesday, 11 September 2018 00:38 (five years ago) link