i wanna read everyone's angry emails tbh
― macropuente (map), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 22:04 (five years ago) link
Colm Toibin is a poor critic? News to me!
― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 22:06 (five years ago) link
nyrb ppl think he's good, lrb ppl think he's bad: it's like melody maker versus nme in the late 80s, and grebo
― mark s, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 22:08 (five years ago) link
i wanna read everyone's angry emails tbhβ macropuente (map), Wednesday, September 19, 2018 6:04 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
β macropuente (map), Wednesday, September 19, 2018 6:04 PM (three minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i would buy this issue
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 22:09 (five years ago) link
I'm reading Toibin's review of the Gunn collection and so far it's not bad. I've liked several of his novels and have never minded his criticism.
― The Silky Veils of Alfred (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 22:13 (five years ago) link
β mark s, Wednesday, September 19, 2018 6:08 PM (one hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
in what way do lrb people think heβs bad? heβs in like every other issue
― flopson, Wednesday, 19 September 2018 23:09 (five years ago) link
I don't like the Grenfell piece, but I don't think it represents the political stance of the whole LRB (certainly not all of its contributors) -- more the political stance of its author.
O'Hagan is one of the LRB's 17 million contributing editors, who as far as I can see can publish whatever they like.
That NYRB issue hasn't even been published yet: I wonder if they'll actually run the article that blew up in their faces.
― Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Wednesday, 19 September 2018 23:22 (five years ago) link
Interview with Buruma:
βI am embroiled in a big scandal, in the middle of storm on social media,β said Ian Buruma on the phone from New York. βIt is rather ironic: as editor of The New York Review of Books I published a theme issue about #MeToo-offenders who had not been convicted in a court of law but by social media. And now I myself am publicly pilloried.β
― ArchCarrier, Thursday, 20 September 2018 07:37 (five years ago) link
really makes you think
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Thursday, 20 September 2018 07:40 (five years ago) link
it's a pity he was a man
― Neil S, Thursday, 20 September 2018 08:42 (five years ago) link
Twitter runs the NYRB now.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 20 September 2018 09:35 (five years ago) link
new editors: shanley and the helldude
― mark s, Thursday, 20 September 2018 09:38 (five years ago) link
Flopson: yes, I know that Colm Toibin writes a lot in the LRB. I have said this twice on this thread. That is one reason that I said that my original comment was deliberately glib. The fact that he writes in the LRB is also the reason I have read loads of his essays, and think he is a quite bad and extremely overrated essayist.
Nonetheless, I think that Mark S's joke also has something to it -- I think that CT *is* more respected in the US than the UK. He works there, and anecdotally I have met American scholars who think he is wonderful and couldn't believe I didn't think the same.
The question re whether he is actually good or bad, in any individual's view here, should probably better be discussed on another thread. I think I have probably already said what I thought about it somewhere on this board.
Despite my typical great frustration with his essays I did read his book on Bishop. I'm not sure now if I thought it was better than the essays.
I have read two of his novels - I think they would need separate judgement.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 20 September 2018 10:37 (five years ago) link
It would be a pretty amazing own of Buruma by the disgruntled members of his former staff if the next issue was indeed composed entirely of the angry letters/emails and, of course, tweets of the last few days.
― Federico Boswarlos, Thursday, 20 September 2018 12:14 (five years ago) link
As a reward for making them see sense on this NYRB should commission mark s to review the dril book.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 20 September 2018 12:47 (five years ago) link
Update, September 20 at 9:36 a.m.: Buruma spoke briefly about his departure to the Dutch outlet Vrij Nederland, saying that he has βbeen convicted on Twitter, without any due process.β He also claims that he resigned from the position and that university presses, who advertise in the NYRB, were threatening a boycott because they feared adverse campus reactions to the Ghomeshi article.
― mookieproof, Thursday, 20 September 2018 14:53 (five years ago) link
Itβs not a trial, dipshit!
― faculty w1fe (silby), Thursday, 20 September 2018 14:55 (five years ago) link
The blaming of the college kids is such a giveaway.
― Frederik B, Thursday, 20 September 2018 14:57 (five years ago) link
oh noes i was convicted on twitter just for being a shithead
(also the magazine would have lost a fuckton of revenue had i stayed on but waaaah social media)
― π§π»ββοΈ F A T π§π»ββοΈ D R A C U L A π§π»ββοΈ (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 20 September 2018 14:57 (five years ago) link
idk how many college kids are aware of the NYRB enough to pressure university presses -- i'd guess the presses were more scared of a faculty response
(if any of that part is even true)
― mookieproof, Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:02 (five years ago) link
this thread is interesting but buruma doesn't seem like a dutch guy through and through.
his behavior is more simply explained by the fact that he is an old man and the apparent cultural consequences of polder model sound a lot like what you see everywhere else.
you remember my writings, discussions, rants, and other assorted peeves I got with Dutch media's mechanism of "debate"? Buruma, a Dutch guy through and through, tried to polder model sexual abuse and now has to contend with the fact that it is not an acceptable approach https://t.co/d6O4WOdgy6— Flavia Dzodan (@redlightvoices) September 19, 2018
― π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:16 (five years ago) link
how would "campus kids" even stage a boycott of university presses?
(lol except by not doing the reading i guess, a boycott without a discernible effect in many cases amirite?)
― mark s, Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:26 (five years ago) link
(sidebar: i love the word "polder" and the various dutch concepts that supposedly arise from it)
― mark s, Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:30 (five years ago) link
w/Flavia there are no simple explanations (one of the best things about her).
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:34 (five years ago) link
I was quite interested recently to find POLDER as a term within SF criticism.
― the pinefox, Thursday, 20 September 2018 15:49 (five years ago) link
Link please, if possible
― Harper Valley CTA-102 (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 20 September 2018 17:01 (five years ago) link
if "polder" does not appear somewhere in a Fall song I will eat someone's hat
― cheese is the teacher, ham is the preacher (Jon not Jon), Thursday, 20 September 2018 17:26 (five years ago) link
A Polder Lover etc.
― Zach Same (Tom D.), Thursday, 20 September 2018 17:30 (five years ago) link
James Redd:
http://sf-encyclopedia.uk/fe.php?nm=polder
― the pinefox, Thursday, 20 September 2018 17:48 (five years ago) link
doomed like the flying dutchman forever to sail the world's media, on his forehead a post-it note reading "dick" which everyone can see but him: the ian buruma story
― mark s, Thursday, 20 September 2018 21:39 (five years ago) link
β π ππ’π¨ (caek), Thursday, September 20, 2018 5:16 PM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
^^ this.
― lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 21 September 2018 07:19 (five years ago) link
See a lot of Dutch13s trying to appropriate what happened to try and explain this happened because he is Dutch. There's a black hole at the heart of the polder model, it has been used for eternity to cover things up or smooth things (hello racism) over. This particular case though seems reaching... He's an old white man, that's p much it in this instance imo.
― lbi's life of limitless european glamour (Le Bateau Ivre), Friday, 21 September 2018 07:23 (five years ago) link
very enterprisingly the NYRB, now that it has my email -- thx to me sending the message that toppled IB -- has begun spamming me with trailers for pieces not by jian ghomeshi
(i don't really mind this, i do think it's funny)
― mark s, Friday, 21 September 2018 15:25 (five years ago) link
A publisher who once threatened me with legal action also simultaneously added me to their mailing list
― Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Saturday, 22 September 2018 01:16 (five years ago) link
Just got my digital copy of the NYRB: it has the offending article, no angry letters, and lists Buruma as editor, so no last-minute changes to this edition.
― Mince Pramthwart (James Morrison), Sunday, 23 September 2018 07:56 (five years ago) link
Posted in the LRB thread, but figured I'd also share here - one of the nice things the LRB does which I don't think the NYRB does (?) are publish 10K+ word essays/reviews.
I haven't finished this one from the new issue, but so far this is very moving and powerful.
https://www.lrb.co.uk/v40/n18/tom-crewe/here-was-a-plague
― Federico Boswarlos, Sunday, 23 September 2018 14:22 (five years ago) link
nyrb/buruma update, posted in the weinstein thread here (in case anyone missed it): Weinsteins step down as Miramax CEOs
"The article was shown to only one male editor. Most members of the staff (including six female members of staff...) were excluded from the substantial editorial processβ^^^so much for the polder model!!
― mark s, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 14:57 (five years ago) link
1/ Just received email of letter from 110 NYRB contributors protesting firing of Ian Buruma βHis dismissal in these circumstances strikes us as an abandonment of the central mission of the Review, which is the free exploration of ideas.β pic.twitter.com/XI84Fkwrob— Cara Buckley (@caraNYT) September 25, 2018
― mookieproof, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 15:29 (five years ago) link
*eyes roll out of head, onto floor, into the pits of hell*
― faculty w1fe (silby), Tuesday, 25 September 2018 15:30 (five years ago) link
nooo Luc Sante
― illegal economic migration (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 25 September 2018 15:47 (five years ago) link
he's going to be very put out when they run my email on the cover of the "reader's respond" issue
alfred brendel's response i'm less concerned abt at this juncture
― mark s, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 15:54 (five years ago) link
lol i hope they actually call it "reader's respond": ALL DRIL ALL THE TIME
― mark s, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 15:55 (five years ago) link
I wonder who organized this letter, and how many of the signatories read the "not my concern" interview, and who was asked to sign and refused.
― mick signals, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 15:56 (five years ago) link
Maybe some of the signatories know him well enough to discount a poor choice of words in an interview vs the guy they know.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 17:30 (five years ago) link
it wasn't just a poor choice of words though, was it? He lied about the editorial process that led to the article
― Number None, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 17:50 (five years ago) link
I donβt see much description of the editorial process in the interview. He says there was an office discussion but that seems to have taken place after the substantive editing had taken place. So βliedβ seems a bit strong. Maybe disagreements were stronger than he let on.
― o. nate, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 20:05 (five years ago) link
Late to this, haven't read Mark's Burumabusting letter, am only familiar with "ponder" in its xpost Science Fiction Encyclopedia sense---"ponder modeling" is consensus-building, right? Normalizing etc. And he lied about consensus-building among the editors. re contributors' protest, don't see what the Ghomeshi piece had to with xpost ideas, or literature (he's not exactly the Celine of unrepentant sex offenders).
― dow, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 21:41 (five years ago) link
has anyone spotted the complete list of signatures anywhere? i've only found summaries and the cut-off alphabetical seen above
(my letter is not yet and may well never be publicly available, dow: it is merely one of i assume many emails sent to the nyrb)
― mark s, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 21:48 (five years ago) link
Everyone is going to have one signatory in that list which is just going to cut you to pieces isn't it? Janet Malcolm re-think this!
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 25 September 2018 22:23 (five years ago) link
The letter they signed isnβt really Trenchant enough for me to be that fretful about any of the signatories.
― faculty w1fe (silby), Tuesday, 25 September 2018 22:35 (five years ago) link