that said, folks gotta update residential zoning laws if the smell from a grower is genuinely that intense. sounds suspiciously quid/agg tho; i grew up next to a tobacco farm and then, later, a cow farm and you get used to that shit, quite literally.
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Thursday, 20 December 2018 16:03 (five years ago) link
Shit is intense though - I remember walking by a block long grow operation in Portland and the smell was amazingly, overwhelmingly strong.
― joygoat, Thursday, 20 December 2018 22:27 (five years ago) link
pfft just attach a huge cardboard tube with a huge dryer sheet stuffed in it to the grow operations, prob solved
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 20 December 2018 22:55 (five years ago) link
Too much of my neighborhood smells like ginkgo trees, which are a bit like a cross between dog shit and vomit that someone ate and then threw up on a pile of dog shit, and then stepped in. Weed smell would be a marked improvement.
Speaking of which, my friend and I took one of those lil' Go Cars in Queens a couple of weeks ago, and the cupholder was essentially piled with pot ash. The car smelled like a college dorm room during a hologram Pink Floyd show.
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 20 December 2018 23:12 (five years ago) link
Here's a line for you:
I asked Mark Kleiman, of the Marron Institute at New York University and one of the most sought-after experts on drug policy in the country, what the future looked like. He foresaw a world in which pot, legal in ever more states and eventually at the national level, will get cheaper and cheaper. The expected tax windfalls would become less likely, unless pot is taxed at the level of potency rather than sale price. The trend toward vaping means there will be greater demand for oil, and if you can melt everything down for oil, pot will be less expensive to produce, because at that point you can grow it like corn.“You can produce all the intoxicant used in a year on 40,000 acres,’’ Mr. Kleiman said. “That’s 20 family farms in Iowa.” Eventually a joint could cost a nickel; Nabisco will take over edibles. “You will have pot grown in Iowa, processed by Cargill and sold by Amazon,” Mr. Kleiman said. “No one will make money except Jeff Bezos, who always makes money.”
“You can produce all the intoxicant used in a year on 40,000 acres,’’ Mr. Kleiman said. “That’s 20 family farms in Iowa.” Eventually a joint could cost a nickel; Nabisco will take over edibles. “You will have pot grown in Iowa, processed by Cargill and sold by Amazon,” Mr. Kleiman said. “No one will make money except Jeff Bezos, who always makes money.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/21/nyregion/legalized-pot-isnt-going-to-save-us.html
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 21 December 2018 16:41 (five years ago) link
that's like saying no one will buy craft beer because they can just down malt liquor
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Friday, 21 December 2018 16:45 (five years ago) link
Legalizing marijuana will have advantages beyond just bringing in taxes. For example - it will help with the fentanyl/painkiller crisis. It will help with our prison crisis. It will resolve the hypocrisy of having alcohol, a far more addictive and dangerous drug, legal while cannabis, a far safer and naturally grown plant, is illegal. On that tip, they have found that in places with legalized marijuana DUIs have gone down, teenage drug use has gone down, and many other wonderful effects. Also the government should not be in the business of telling adults what plants they can and cannot grow.
― Mordy, Friday, 21 December 2018 16:46 (five years ago) link
^^ all resoundingly otm
― sleeve, Friday, 21 December 2018 16:48 (five years ago) link
that being said, oversupply is tough for growers, ounces are down to $28 here in Oregon (they were $40 a couple of months ago).
― sleeve, Friday, 21 December 2018 16:49 (five years ago) link
wowreally?
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 21 December 2018 17:00 (five years ago) link
i am not questioning the numbers i am just shocked and should have left it at wow
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 21 December 2018 17:01 (five years ago) link
I know, right?
https://archive.org/details/20181220EW/page/n27
― sleeve, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:02 (five years ago) link
No bud for oil!
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:02 (five years ago) link
I think I paid $40 for a quarter ounce in the mid 1980's.
― brownie, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:08 (five years ago) link
yep, sounds about right
― sleeve, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:08 (five years ago) link
it will help with the fentanyl/painkiller crisis.
I think the health benefits of cannabis, understudied though they may be, are pretty overstated. I'm sure it helps suppress nausea and increase appetite, and probably alleviate some anxiety and stuff like that. And it's certainly healthier than alcohol. But cannabis as a serious alternative to opioids for pain suppression? I doubt it. Cannabis as a serious alternative to those addicted to opioids? I mean, it can't hurt, but can it really compete with something to that degree of addictiveness? Anyway, I remember hearing, early on, that one of the most highly touted attributes of cannabis was in treating patients with glaucoma, but my wife and I looked it up and in order to work as well as Rx medicines you'd basically have to smoke all the time. Just as an example.
Perhaps we'll learn more about cannabis when we start to properly study it, which is one of the most obvious benefits to legalization. Also reducing waste in the criminal justice system. And, yeah, on its face it's massively hypocritical to have alcohol legal and not pot.
Regarding money/taxes, did I unthread mention the conversation I had with someone on CA, about how she anecdotally saw the legalizing of cannabis as actually fostering the black market, since taxes boost the price so much people are turning to private growers and sellers, who, yeah, have an overabundance?
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:12 (five years ago) link
Josh I have been using marijuana to treat pain daily since I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease in 2005. Before I went on Humira it was often the only way I was able to leave the house.
― Mordy, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:17 (five years ago) link
When I was hospitalized in 2011 for a Crohn's flareup they gave me steroids and an opiate prescription. I threw away the prescription and used marijuana exclusively to treat the pain. (I still used the steroid regime.)
― Mordy, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:18 (five years ago) link
crohn's seems to be an area where it's helpful. never did anything for my chronic pain (i have a bad back and used to get high every day until start of this year, had no analgesic quality whatsoever for me)
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Friday, 21 December 2018 17:22 (five years ago) link
documentation:
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-10-cannabis-symptoms-crohn-disease-effect.html
― sleeve, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:24 (five years ago) link
iirc this was Israeli research and shows the benefits of being able to do lab research in a legalized environment, we really need to get cannabis off of Schedule 1.
― sleeve, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:25 (five years ago) link
JiC -- i think you are being unfairly dismissive wrt mental health benefits of mmI'm sure it helps suppress nausea and increase appetite, and probably alleviate some anxiety and stuff like that
Not to mention there are very few medications available for appetite loss, which can be life threatening if you think about it.
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Friday, 21 December 2018 17:26 (five years ago) link
I have Crohn's too, thankfully only ever had 1 flareup. I cannot imagine using only mj to treat the pain. Though really the only time I needed opioids was post-op. Oh and I guess codeine due to infection spreading & nerve damage to leg from botched interventional radiology session. But for nausea and lack-of-appetite, sure.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 21 December 2018 17:26 (five years ago) link
The only thing I wanted to eat during my flare-up was Arby's lol go figure
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 21 December 2018 17:27 (five years ago) link
I was about to ask, is Crohn's one of the conditions, like glaucoma, where it has shown some demonstrated benefit?
Obviously if it works it works. I just can't imagine people with severe chronic pain and/or serious addictions to opiates finding comfort through cannabis. Now, about ten years ago I had a kidney stone, and it was the most painful thing ever. They gave me this huge jar of Vicodin, iirc, and though I only ended up using maybe three pills over the course of a week, I do recall it made me feel sort of hazy but not much more than that. Maybe it might work like that? (The urologist, incidentally, told me that were my stone not as large as it was he would have just prescribed a six-pack of beer.)
And I was not at all being dismissive of mental health benefits. I even say it probably helps!
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:28 (five years ago) link
that link doesn't specify which sx were alleviated
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Friday, 21 December 2018 17:29 (five years ago) link
Again, I don't think cannabis is dangerous, and it clearly does have benefits for some people for some things. Future studies will likely bear that out. I just think it's being oversold as a miracle drug panacea is all.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:30 (five years ago) link
xp how about this one:
https://www.tikunolam.com/article.php?id=1107
90% Significant Reduction of Crohn's Disease Symptoms with No Side Effects;
Verification of full Remission in 50%
― sleeve, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:33 (five years ago) link
I know people who take it for fibromyalgia as well and report [to me] amazing results.
― Mordy, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:43 (five years ago) link
I think the more studies the better.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 21 December 2018 17:43 (five years ago) link
i find marijuana to be effective pain and sleep medication following a year of severe neck issues. still haven't quite figured out how to vape properly but, in coordination with 800mg of ibuprofen, i can get through the night and keep my sanity.
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Friday, 21 December 2018 17:46 (five years ago) link
Seen a couple of articles lately about how predicted economic benefits of cannabis have not quite panned out because the high prices and taxes have actually driven people to the black market.
Here's an admittedly early one about Canada:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/canada-legalized-pot-in-october-but-its-black-market-is-still-going-strong/2019/01/04/ca09a3b0-fe53-11e8-a17e-162b712e8fc2_story.html
But here's one about CA and how the state's massive surplus has been largely going elsewhere, and how sales have actually *dropped* since recreational legalization:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/02/us/buying-legal-weed-in-california.html
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 6 January 2019 13:22 (five years ago) link
has usage gone down though too? isn't a longterm policy goal to curb recreational usage of this "dangerous" substance, like what's happened with cigarettes?
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43ej5n/now-that-weed-is-legal-in-canada-we-asked-college-students-if-its-still-cool
― reggie (qualmsley), Sunday, 6 January 2019 13:49 (five years ago) link
Yeah, there's some funny stuff happening. Legalizing cannabis was intended, in part, to counter the black market. But the black market is thriving because of surplus (or shortages!) of high quality legal cannabis, and also because the high tax on legal cannabis is driving people to cheaper alternatives, which in turn means less tax revenue than predicted. But that would have happened anyway, since usage is dropping. So legalization, at least to some degree, is bolstering the black market even as the bottom drops out due to surplus driven by ... legalization. Which is or may be bringing in less taxes than predicted because some people would rather skip the tax-imposing middle man and just go straight to the source. Which means the only way to encourage or increase legal sales would be to ... stop the sale of pot on the black market, which brings us back to square one.
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 6 January 2019 14:15 (five years ago) link
https://lcb.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/annual_report/2017-annual-report-final2-web.pdf
WA collected $315 million in sales tax (37% on retail) on weed in fiscal 2017, $113 million more than from liquor. Sales of $259 million in 2015, $786 million in 2016, $1.3B in 2017.
What a disaster for low-income health care.
― sans lep (sic), Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:16 (five years ago) link
Cannabis taxes are significantly higher than liquor taxes. Regardless, the more taxes/money made for the state the better.
So I wonder why sales are not as robust in CA as in WA? Or, flipped, why a state with a fraction of the population of CA would have numbers so high (relative to size)? Is it because CA is priced/taxed too high?
― Josh in Chicago, Sunday, 6 January 2019 22:46 (five years ago) link
For a decade, cannabis had already been legal in CA if you were happy spending 10 minutes and $30 to get a licence. Prosecution/enforcement of illegal consumption had therefore dropped enormously. Licences for legal stores had not been adequately established by 1/1/2018, and stocks still ran out in the first week.(Similarly, long-standing legal dispensaries in Vancouver are now illegal under national legalisation, but federal response is to shrug and guess it’ll get sorted out sometime, so leave them alone for now.)A few months’ data from a state here and a territory there is not really representative of an overall market. WA has been legal for six years, with walk-in stores open for 4.5 years. Wait a bit before you draw any conclusions about markets that have opened since some ilxors changed their sheets.
― sans lep (sic), Monday, 7 January 2019 00:25 (five years ago) link
Just seems weird that sales should *drop* in CA the first year of full legalization. You'd think they'd at least hold steady.
― Josh in Chicago, Monday, 7 January 2019 01:27 (five years ago) link
Sic otm
― Οὖτις, Monday, 7 January 2019 01:48 (five years ago) link
How does Washington deal with the banking problems? Like, one of the big issues in California is that because it is still illegal at the federal level, banks aren't willing to finance weed companies, and in many cases (idk) not even allow them to have bank accounts.
― sarahell, Monday, 7 January 2019 02:05 (five years ago) link
not sure how safe my thoughts are to begin with tbh
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/01/14/is-marijuana-as-safe-as-we-think?
― reggie (qualmsley), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 14:27 (five years ago) link
Does it affect motivation and cognition? Hard to say, but probably.
i think it's safe to accept anecdotal evidence here
― zwei dunkel jungen (crüt), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 14:33 (five years ago) link
Is that the Malcolm Gladwell piece? Fuck that guy and his flimsy rhetorical questions.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 8 January 2019 14:38 (five years ago) link
thanks now i know not to even open the link
― (•̪●) (carne asada), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 14:45 (five years ago) link
Wasn't there an Onion story? Marijuana linked to sitting around and getting high?
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 8 January 2019 15:09 (five years ago) link
Wow what a worthless article
― Heez, Tuesday, 8 January 2019 15:24 (five years ago) link
sure ice cream is good... but is it good FOR you? the answer might not surprise you.
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 16:17 (five years ago) link
it's really interesting how one of the most notorious bars among the boston college cohort possibly being turned into a recreational dispensary is making people lose their minds
https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/01/07/recreational-marijuana-shop-proposed-mary-anns-cleveland-circle-boston/http://bcheights.com/2018/10/13/report-potential-conversion-of-mary-anns-to-dispensary-draws-bc-cleveland-circle-merchants-opposition/
― maura, Tuesday, 8 January 2019 16:36 (five years ago) link
haha, I love this, I lived right near there for many years, can't wait to go back and buy some w33d!
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 17:01 (five years ago) link
How does Washington deal with the banking problems?
Three WA credit unions and 2 WA banks handle hundreds of businesses each; at POS, stores are all cash (or bitcoin) and have ATMs inside ime
You're basing this on one second-hand citation from one company
― sans lep (sic), Tuesday, 8 January 2019 18:50 (five years ago) link