ThReads Must Roll: the new, improved rolling fantasy, science fiction, speculative fiction &c. thread

great list, should keep me going for the year. it might even prompt me to stray further into fantasy than i usually do.

Interesting how the current panel is sort of bizarro version of the first one.

Perhaps the finest military fantasy about a Germanic centaur in a quasi-WWI setting ever.

That line sold me.

Because you have already read a lot of fantasies along similar lines and now can only find the finest, I assume.

so many terrible covers on that second list

Indeed

Thank you for sharing those lists, RAG. It sounds like this writer has also compiled a SF novel 'list of lists', which I would be interested to see - I couldn't see any likely links to it, on the page you linked to.

In the 'Forgotten Greats' list, JDN states that Wymon Guin, "is one of two authors who have won the Rediscovery whose work I have not managed to track down." My records indicate that I have stories by Guin - 'Volpla' in The Third Galaxy Reader edited by H L Gold (US paperback) and 'Beyond Bedlam' in Spectrum 2 edited by Amis and Conquest (UK paperback). I will read and report back!

He's made a ton of lists on the Tor site and on his own site so it might take a while to find. On one of his women writer focused lists I saw something that seems like it might epitomize a certain type of fantasy from the recent-ish past: the Horsegirl series by Constance Ash, I'd like to try it.

Would be cool if this guy wrote a big book guide but he tends to focus on tropes and types of stories and I don't know if he'd be up to writing about books that should be preserved for the ages.
But he's very welcome on sites like Tor and File770 that focus way too much on tv and film crap. I appreciate Black Gate for keeping that shit to a minimum.

For all the allure of pre-pulp and foreign language obscurities, the prospect of buried treasure in DAW books and similar publishers from the 70s-80s-90s is incredibly exciting to me.

I can never have enough guides. Another type of guide I'd like to see is for writers who are extremely prolific and very variable in quality like Philip Jose Farmer, Andre Norton, Roger Zelazny and CJ Cherryh. Not hard to find the fan favorites but navigating beyond that is much more foggy.

In total agreement with you about Farmer and Zelazny, don't know the others too well.

Poul Anderson and even someone as popular as Silverberg might benefit from some sort of reading order curated by critics.

Yeah, those two as well.

Also, another thing that fascinates me is writers who are generally regarded as trash yet people say they do have good work buried among their output: Piers Anthony and Brian Lumley.

I'm curious about Anthony's Firefly because people say its unbelievably fucked up and offensive.

Man even *I* couldn’t bring myself to slog through everything of Silverbob’s.

Xp

But yet you show no such scruples with Michael Moorcock.

Did Moorcock write many duds? The reason I didn't include Vance and Tanith Lee is that people generally say they didn't have any real duds, although some of the Vance books really offend some people for other reasons.

I thought Andre Norton was all duds. Was I wrong?

There is definitely Moorcock stuff I cant slog through! Corum, Hawkmoon, those Mars books...

I thought the same thing as James M.

I just read Norton's Galactic Derelict - took me about 2 hours so no great investment if you're curious - the titular derelict isn't a vast & mysterious hulk à la Alien, but a modest & human sized vessel; we get a trip back to caveman days and a sort of interstellar safari, the former is not bad but the latter is lacking in THRILL POWER and written in the time when advanced & complex alien technology could still be fixed with a pair of pliers. 3/5.

i thought it read very much like part of a series and lo it is in fact #2 of 4 (+3 later additions); i mean if you like your 50s/60s ripping yarn style sf you could do worse.

I see the Gollancz SF Masterworks are being replaced by the less appealing (to me) Golden Age Masterworks:
https://www.gollancz.co.uk/news/gollanczs-golden-age-masterworks/
Quite like the covers, though.

Re: Farmer and Silverberg - funnily enough, a year or so ago a charity shop in Glasgow had large holdings of exactly those two authors, so I picked up big chunks of their back catalogues. Haven't made much headway with PJF so far, but have enjoyed all the Silverberg I've sampled (and just happen to be currently reading his Time of Changes.) I would say that you can't go too far wrong with any of the SF that Silverbob wrote in the late 60s to mid-70s, and what's especially impressive is how different the books are from each other - despite being insanely prolific, he wasn't leaning on any particular style, setting, genre. Would also highly recommend his short stories 'Passengers' and 'Born With the Dead', which both manage to offer new takes on standard horror/SF tropes (alien possession and zombies, respectively). The one major minus point about Silverberg - the 'sexy stuff' in his books tends to be pretty awful, especially when read today. I suspect the same may also be true of Farmer.

Based on the one Farmer I've read (the first Riverworld) that is horribly true

Yeah, Silverbob seems to have had a great run roughly bookended by those two stories just mentioned.

I don't know where I got hold of the weighty hardback I had that collected Time of Changes, I Robot, and one other I forget. Far too young and naive for the Silverberg but I think I read it multiple times anyway.

I see the Gollancz SF Masterworks are being replaced by the less appealing (to me) Golden Age Masterworks:
https://www.gollancz.co.uk/news/gollanczs-golden-age-masterworks🕸/
Quite like the covers, though.

Guy who wrote the article also quite dedicated to reviewing forgotten women
https://www.tor.com/2018/12/27/100-sf-f-books-you-should-consider-reading-in-the-new-year/

― Robert Adam Gilmour, Saturday, January 5, 2019 5:42 PM (two days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

SO MANY GREAT BOOKS ON THIS LIST!! Several of which I just finished reading or re-reading (Swordspoint, Long Way to a Small Angry Planet, God's War (which is part of a trilogy iirc--I'm on book 2 now), The Thief, All Systems Red, SO MANY

Whoops! And so many more beloved old friends from over the years--I'd forgotten Jirel of Joiry but now I can revisit her! Reading list for weeks (if I can find them as ebooks, which is sometimes not possible).

Believe Jirel exists in ebook form

And in French paperback as well, I see

I would say that you can't go too far wrong with any of the SF that Silverbob wrote in the late 60s to mid-70s, and what's especially impressive is how different the books are from each other - despite being insanely prolific, he wasn't leaning on any particular style, setting, genre.

agree w all this and feel like it's the consensus around here. Having dipped into his material on either side of this era, I'm loathe to go much farther. His earlier stuff is, completely understandably, a bit pedestrian and unexceptional, as he was quite young and still finding his voice and figuring out the mechanics of the genre. Post-comeback material I've read is just "Lord Valentine's Castle" (and maybe one or two of the other Majipoor books) and a story from 1973 ("This is the Road") that he later apparently repurposed into a novel. The Majipoor stuff I read in high school and I would think would be less forgiving of it now. It seems like post-comeback he was content to settle in to genre conventions and just hone his craft, engage in "world building", etc.

The 100 books you should considerlist is indeed awesome, b-but--no Brackett, no Cadigan, no Kress, no Seabright/St. Clair? Oh well Cadigan and S/S might be best at short stories, and no short story collections here, that I noticed, which is a major limitation. Also, good that he's got Piercy on there, but no Lessing, not even The Four-Gated City? Also no Angela Carterw!
A few guys and non-binary on here, as noted in readers' comments, but wtf:
Dhalgren by Samuel R. Delany (1975)
It’s important to acknowledge SF’s crowd-pleasers along with its more ambitious works. Dhalgren is just such a crowd-pleaser. The inexplicably transformed city Bellona has enthralled readers for decades; the Bantam edition alone went through nineteen printings, with sales of over a million copies. [One of my advance readers asked at this point: “But how many of the people who bought it finished reading this doorstop? I didn’t.” "I don't like it, but the kids do, but maybe not." Why bother? Also it did seem ambitious, in a seemingly leisurely way, and justifying what only local yokels would think was rape? Or was it a comment on self-justification? Liked some parts, but it's where I got off the bus, probably missing a lot of or some better stuff. Seems like very much of a ringer on this list.

mookieproof
Posted: January 5, 2019 at 3:18:26 PM
Perhaps the finest military fantasy about a Germanic centaur in a quasi-WWI setting ever.

Of course I immediately know what this is.

Replaced, you say? Or augmented by?

Well, there are no more of the SF Masterworks scheduled for at least the next 9 months.

I'm pretty psyched for the Marlon James tbh, I liked Seven Killings.

these are out in March apparently

https://www.orionbooks.co.uk/assets/OrionPublishingGroup/img/book/449/isbn9781473213449.jpg

https://www.orionbooks.co.uk/assets/OrionPublishingGroup/img/book/029/isbn9781473226029.jpg

goddamn those are ugly

I kinda like the lafferty

Ok, that's weird: neither of those were going to be Masterworks -- see the original Lafferty cover upthread. Still. Glad to see the series hasn't been binned!

Possibly common knowledge for thread participants but wow I just learned last night that the director of the Vance Integral Edition project insisted, controversially, on creating his own typeface from scratch to use for the books. It looks ridiculously amateurish:

http://imgur.com/8Aa66hnl.png

Who was the director? Paul Rhoads? I hate him

Yeah; I hadn't heard of him, or anything about the details of the project, but that is hateable kerning

I love Jack Vance, but don't really feel the need to own a complete edition in a hateable typeface - it's not that hard to find lots of Vance secondhand in the UK, yes, even Servants of the Wankh.

The ebook editions of the vie are unobjectionable in this respect, at least the ones I have bought (they have their own store, Spatterlight, run by Vance's son IIRC, and the ebooks are very affordable).

Paul Rhoads is a horrible clash of civilizations hard right neocon who latched onto Vance's legacy with his polluted beak. I don't think the other VIE people are ideologues of the same type as Rhoads and certainly many in Vance appreciation hate him.

I haven't checked lately but I do queasily wonder how Rhoads has processed the alt-right era.

Back to xpost Ian Watson's Books of the Black Current:
James M was dubious of the author's interest in mysticism, but at least here (almost the only Watson I've read) it's a cover story, one you tell other entities and yourself ('tis said that a real conperson starts with belief in own BS): a means to an end, to the Greater Good of course, also "rationalization" in the sense of making sense to yourself of some crazy senseshifting---stuff. Which goes, for one instance, with this reader's increasing awareness (narrator catches up sometimes, but then gets excited and distracted) that the Godmind (post-Singularity supercomputer of course, anointing itself w "precog myths" of Son of Man), also its "offspring," are essentially still passive, reactive, also passive-aggressive. in trying to anticipate problems or anyway solutions, to be plugged into any problems that might arise/further cohere---essentially algorithmic, maybe?
So that if our Mouth of the South Yaleen gets all "J'Accuse!", Something might respond, like,"Hadn't thought of that one, but now that you mention it---" She's not necessarily wrong in some or maybe all of this, but she sees and deduces and infers etc more than the Godmind or the Current might be aware of doing, or heading in the direction of; she makes the super/sub/post-humsn mind more self-aware, helps it further develop something like a self--which might be taken as an implied comment on or derivation from the history of religion (as well as a spin-off from Forbidden Planet, although mastermind there has to find out about his subconscious the hard way).
Anyway, one example of how familiar elements get thoroughly Watsonized, and it's all about character development (I did barely anticipate one plot point-mutation, but 0 of the ramifications). Now in the home-stretch.

She doesn't confront these Things very often, and they don't show up very often, and so many ramifications in between, spiraling to encounters that don't seem that much like previous, so of course developing habits of self-restraint aren't encouraged (not doing this too often keeps the running gag, sometimes a killing joke, from wearing out).

C'est la VIE

I hope the Spatterlight print books look okay. I'll probably be buying them mostly for the short story collections rather than easy to find novels.

Andre Norton has had quite a reappraisal in the last few years. But still, these retrospectives haven't given a list of the best ones. I've got my eye on a few collections.
https://www.tor.com/tag/andre-norton-reread/
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/reviews/series/50-nortons-in-50-weeks

I don't think Nicoll's list on the Tor site was supposed to be his definitive list or anything.

Sad that there isn't more Gollancz Fantasy Masterworks. I imagine they sell poorly because the prose style of fantasy classics is generally less accessible to most people.
This is actually the third time Gollancz has packaged some of that CL Moore material as classics. There was a Fantasy Masterworks and SF Gateway Omnibus with that stuff.
I'm happy about the Leigh Brackett announcement.
Wish Gollancz did more collections.

No joke: I searched amazon for "Pamela Sargent Shore Of Women" and I got a result saying "we cannot find Pamela Sargent Shoes Of Women"