the alt-right

i watched a lot of the og video. the hecklers were def going the "incest" route. tbf, lil maga man does a Hapsburg ass chin.

NY Times’ new conclusion; ‘It’s complicated’ https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/20/us/nathan-phillips-covington.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur

how could it be anything other than what you snap-perceived it to be. lol nytimes

is there really no-one else here who thinks there's something creepy about large numbers of adults singling out one individual child, putting his face and name all over the internet, fantasizing about beating him up, writing articles about how he's a symbol of everything wrong with America etc?

lots of ppl sharing this take - the fact this kid doesn't seem to have actually done anything in particular is just evidence of how wicked and hateful he really is

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxYVBlNWoAAu6UO.jpg

Nothing arouses America more than Manichaean symbolism.

Kid had a MAGA hat on, in a country where the police routinely kills black teenagers and the media then starts demonizing the teenagers. Stop defending him.

I don't think anyone's defending his actions but the outrage has been disproportionate given his age. Then again, it's never been about him per se but about what he stands for – he's an image, not a person.

ppl can momentarily embody wider social tensions and processes for which they ofc aren't individually responsible. you don't have to think this kid is an irredeemable demon to agree w that marlon james post

maybe, but a lot of the ppl sharing that post do seem to think the kid is an irredeemable demon, and are explicitly not seeing this in terms of him 'momentarily' embodying wider social tensions

look, maybe I'm taking all of this too personally - I'm autistic and frequently get into situations where I'm stood somewhere with what turns out to be an 'inappropriate' facial expression that people take offence to, and infer from that expression all kinds of things about what I'm thinking, feeling etc. I've seen loads of stuff like this, which is like some kind of anxiety dream version of that happening on a massively larger scale:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DxYIX_zWwAEBay_.jpg

the crowd of schoolkids as a whole were being rowdy and obnoxious, this particular kid who ppl are enthusiastically turning into an emblem of everything bad in Trump's America is almost certainly an asshole, but I no-one deserves this

His age never made it ok, and his behaviour is still really racist - the irony here is that the Native American veteran literally went over there as a peace offering, and the kid thought he was provoking him and stared him down, and the reaction now is that we shouldn't have been so quick to think bad of white people. But of course it was always about what they represented.

It was always the hat, as much as the smile.

there will always be ppl out there willing to judge you to be an irredeemable demon, you have to either disconnect or be prepared to not give every opinion serious consideration

Or not go to a March for Life demonstration wearing a MAGA hat. I know, people are so cruel.

The kid obviously sucks but the principle of “making an example” of someone is gross. I’m proud of ilx for seeing nuance here.

I remain unconvinced that age isn't a factor here. Doubly so in light of his family's statements, which betray some heavy-duty ideological reproduction. Scapegoating a teenager is never ok, no matter how just your cause. And the act of dissociating the 'man' himself from his viral likeness is fraught with ambiguity.

That full video is kind of dreamlike. The black israelite preaching while one of his associates (i think) circles around them on a hover-skateboard. The guy switches between saying really provocative, awful things to the native protesters and then calling out real injustice—the rage isncoming from somewhere real even if the theology is exclusionary. Then suddenly the MAGA kids gather on the top of the steps and begin chanting incoherently in response to the street preacher. At one point a kid takes off his shirt and jumps in front of the crowd to lead them in some kind of chant, leading the guy with the camera (a black israelite) to turn it to himself and say “look who the real cavemen are.” This is around the point when Philips comes in and confronts the kids with the peace offering. The kids are by this point already super riled up.

Who is talking about scapegoating? Thinking a young guy in a MAGA-hat is a piece of shit / budding sociopath is not scapegoating or lacking nuance. It's realistic. And for many people quite necessary.

This is around the point when Philips comes in and confronts the kids with the peace offering.

Oh shut the fuck up

That is what happened

Philips is the native protester. He said he was trying to de-escalate the situation. I believe him.

'confronts'?

Approaches?

If you want to make me seem i’m pro-MAGA or something knock yourself out.

To 'confront' can also simply mean 'to encounter, to come face to face with'.

Yeah, and it can mean other stuff. So say it a less shitty way if you don't want to be judged.

yes it can and of course that is what i meant.

Fuck

You

Fred

Anyway, I think everyone itt agrees that the kid's behaviour was bigoted and idiotic, Frederik, I'm just questioning whether he's old enough to fully deserve and bear the brunt of the accusations cast against him (or his ephemeral effigy, as it were).

The idea that somehow it was confrontational of Philips to sing the peace song the way he did is so fucking stupid, and borderline racist. These kids show up at an Indigenous Peoples March wearing MAGA hats, the same week their glorious leader went off on another racist diatribe against Elizabeth Warren, and somehow the Native American activist is not even meant to de-escalate and be understanding, he is meant to do so in a specific comforting and non-threatening way, because otherwise this 'pumped up' kid will have no choice but to think he is attacking him and try to stare him down.

A lot of people are more deserving of scorn than this kid, I don't think anyone disagrees. But the list of people who are more deserving of pity and protection is a hundred times as long, so it seems to me a stupid thing to waste time arguing about.

Are you seriously reading into what i said that i think phikips should have been more accomodating of the racist mob? What the hell is the matter with you?

*philips

In any case, confronting a group of rowdy teenagers to try to stop a potentially violent situation is admirable behavior no matter how you do it. That dude is the only actor in the scene who is wholly sympathetic. The kid was part of a mob of racist douchebags and the shittiness people have read into his smile is probably not too far off the mark—his friends were mocking philips. I just wonder if it’s a good idea to single out specific adolescents on a national stage ad symbols of evil—there is a clear element of mob mentality at play here too.

Fred OTM here, except for the weird misreading of the Treeship post.

I never mentioned Treeship in that post and you should stop jumping to conclusions and give me the very most generous interpretation of what I wrote because it could clearly be interpreted in a way where it all made perfect sense, and if you aren't willing to do that then what the fuck is wrong with you all?

Sorry, I'm just so fucking tired of this shit. I honestly do apologize if it seemed like I was aiming at you when I was mixing much broader attacks in there.

It’s fine dude, i don’t hold grudges

But to clarify, Treeship, I don't think the problem is mob-mentality in general. There's racism, and there's the protection of numbers. Both are 'mobs' but they're very different mobs.

What age is this little prick anyway?

Apparently a high school junior so 16 or 17 most likely

We've already established that age is just a number and that mob mentality isn't a problem when it echoes our own beliefs.

Talk about shitty interpretations.

Showing off in front of your mates is something men are stupid enough to do at any age.

Well you're basically espousing a zero-sum game approach: who gives a fuck about this shitty kid, there are so many other more important things to worry about, nuance is a waste of time in this instance. It's a legitimate point of view, but one I can't get behind it, sorry.

xp

Scratch that last 'it'.

The impasse that keeps coming up is that the right wing in america in 2019 is so hateful, so radical, so irresponsible and so dishonest, that at any point critiquing the shortcomings of the left feels bizarre, like complaining about a broken window when the house is on fire. I get this position. But i also think it’s important to keep ourselves to a higher standard of conduct. So my critique of the excesses of call out culture and other things come from that standpoint.

There's nothing nuanced about a MAGA-cap, and attempting to get a nuanced reading of MAGA-cap-wearing people is nonsensical. It's completely breathtaking to read the statement from the kid, who not once mentions the fact that they were wearing caps swearing allegiance to a racist, sexist piece of shit. The gall to constantly wonder why on earth anyone would choose to attack us poor white Trump'ers, when we clearly have no hate in our hearts and our little heads wearing hateful hats.

I don't know about you, but a 16 or 17 year old wearing a MAGA cap doesn't elicit the same reaction from me as an adult doing the same. That's what I mean by 'nuance'.