the alt-right

i have no idea , but a necessary consequence of doxxing and misidentifying is that it is not possible to get 'the right guy' when there is a rush to get "a guy"

I’d have clipped the wee nyaff’s lug. As far as what should happen, I would suspend the kids involved, and make them sit through some detention speeches about native Americans. I’d maybe fire the chaperones. The social media blowout? Yeah, it’s kind of strong, and maybe counter productive. But I understand each individuals reaction - but there is an emergent punishment which is harsher than most individuals support. Still, fuck these kids, and especially fuck their teachers.

Alt-right is bad. This kid is bad. His teachers are bad. Online hate mobs shaming people are bad. Twitter is bad. 2019 is bad.

I don't think anyone on here has supported doxxing anyone?

can't believe we're not discussing charlie kirk getting benched at cedars sinai

It depends on what people mean by doxxing. I’d support identifying him for his school to deal with, but not with the total unveiling on social media.

I guess I mainly mean, is this stuff likely to move the kid back towards humanity, or cement his position on the far right. Given that moving towards the centre would involve admitting fault (which people don’t like) it seems. Likely to harden his heart.

Of course, it may still be worthwhile if it discourages others who would be coal supporters of the far right. I don’t know.

Doxxing and call out/cancelation culture could be an entirely other thread. Every single time there is a horrible event they always misidentify people (on purpose). I don't get it but I also don't do anything in my life for clicks.

*insert promising swim career trope*

Doxxing and calling out/cancelling is two very different things to me. There's putting pressure on Covington to deal with this - they must know who he is - and then there's trying to figure out/publicize his information on your own. Don't doxx, don't ever doxx, no matter what anyone does. Just don't doxx.

I think there may be hypothetical situations where doxxing is okay. But that’s another discussion, I guess.

Btw, sad lol:

Glenn Greenwald went on Laura Ingraham's Fox News show last night to run interference for Trump-loving kids who harassed a Native American elder pic.twitter.com/i7W1ersK3O

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) January 22, 2019

identifying a fella misbehaving himself in public is not, to my understanding, doxxing

Discussing hypothetical situations where it's okay to doxx is like discussing the trolley problem imo. Sure, hypothetically, but it's so hypothetical that discussing it is a waste of time.

Anything that is digging up more information than is in the video is doxxing to me. Putting his face out there, sure, he did it himself. Saying it's Covington, already known, they're chanting their songs. Figuring out his name, nope.

xpost, yeah they are completely different things, people keep bringing up two and then I added in cancelation culture because I remember people also getting antsy about it a little bit ago. I don't really have interest in discussing them because they are pretty black and white.

Also, and I don't know if I even have to make this clear, but identifying Charlottesville protestors was ok. They were explicitly making a statement about what they were personally for, so at that point they'd given up their right to anonymity. So if the story had been that Nathan Silvermann is in the March for Life, sure, he was there to show he supported March for Life. Nathan Silvermann did something stupid on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, nope, that's doxxing.

Anything that is digging up more information than is in the video is doxxing to me. Putting his face out there, sure, he did it himself. Saying it's Covington, already known, they're chanting their songs. Figuring out his name, nope.

― Frederik B, Tuesday, January 22, 2019 1:14 PM (one minute ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

any neat distinction between doxxing and 'putting his face out there' seems dubious to me? if big media outlets are doing pieces like this:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/01/maga-teenager-native-american-veteran-harassment-smile.html

then of course that's going to lead to his name and personal details being spread around, of course it going to lead to him an his family getting harrassed, even if slate or whoever doesn't actually print his name

identifying Charlottesville protestors was ok

Ah, we agree then. For some reason I thought you were making an absolute statement about doxxing...

It's so crazy to me that there are kids that willingly wear MAGA hats.

The point is, identifying Charlottesville protestors wasn't doxxing.

Don't ever push more information than you've been given. But the whole point of marching is to show that real people support what you're marching for. So by marching you've given up your right to anonymity. After that, connecting the dots between who the marchers were, and all public information available, became okay. Figuring out private information was still not okay.

how do you distinguish between 'public' and 'private' information, though? e.g. how would you categorise the twitter and facebook accounts of the students in the video, or pictures and captions from the school website etc?

I made this, don't fp me thx - Public Shaming C/D?

It's really not that hard to figure out if a facebook account is on private or public, and most other cases are about as easy.

I don't think the public/private distinction holds a lot of the time, or that the idea of 'public' stands up to much scrutiny, just different degrees of privacy and control. ppl share a lot more when they don't think they're going to be under enormous scrutiny from strangers, it's not all fair game. saying you give up your anonymity/privacy by marching is only attractive when you're against the ppl protesting. the police in the UK were recently found to have reported disabled protestors to the department of work and pensions to see if mb they should have their benefits cut. just checking everything's in order with ppl who have voluntarily entered the public sphere, what's the big deal?

The problem here is putting pressure on work and pensions. That's never a right thing to do.

there's no reason to trust authorities with information abt protestors

Always some muthafucka on the internet tellin me I ain’t seein what I’m seein. Little white bitches in red hats symbolizing the lowest impulses there are. Fuck em!!! https://t.co/68uZXrdvTz

— Ron Perlman (@perlmutations) January 22, 2019

The point is, identifying Charlottesville protestors wasn't doxxing.

How no? It seems like you're splitting things into 'good' doxxing an 'bad' doxxing, just so you can say you don't think doxxing is okay. It seems like the same kind of thing - people searching through facebook pages etc. to find and publish someone's identity. (To be clear, I support doxxing fascists).

I am confused, Charlottesville protestors, we are talking about the identifying of people who committed crimes/hate crimes?

dude, I already explained it. I'm not going to repeat myself. It's not the same thing, for reasons I've already outlined.

Doxxing is a good when done to people I don’t like and bad when done to people I do like, just like anything else, ppl act like this is an inconsistent stance to have but I don’t see why

it makes perfect sense.

You're allowed to connect the dots between freely given information. A facebook-page is freely given information. If you go to a demonstration, that's freely given information. Someone snaps a video of you doing something shitty on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, that is not freely given information. And there must be a better term than 'freely given information', but I don't know it.

It’s a kid

This is like when a fellow teacher alerted me that some kids tweeted that they hated me because my pop quiz was too hard. It felt 1.) dumb and 2.) kind of like a violation, because the kids didn’t intend for me to see their angry cactus emojis

Can we move this to the thread that was just created for it

I think I hate the word 'kid'.

Fine

He was not an adult. He is not allowed legally to buy cigarettes.

You can't do anything in the US until you're 28 or sumthin '.

^ great John Mellencamp song

Someone bought him that hat with someone's money, though. And he put it on on purpose.

If you go to a public demonstration where the point is to be aggressively present and visible, then wear a Trump hat, whose point is to be aggressively present and visible, then get in someone's face (whatever the context), which is very aggressively present and visible, then do it in front of dozens of cameras, then no one can be surprised when your identity is revealed. (This goes for this choad and Charlottesville MAGA people alike.) Further, when you hire a PR firm to try to spin things your way, that is the opposite of seeking privacy and anonymity, let alone playing the "innocent" card. That is bringing *more* attention to yourself and trying to control the narrative to your benefit.

You can't buy hats in Kentucky until you're 21

Pretty sure you get a trucker had in the hospital, along with those cute newborn blankets.

I was struck by a Britney Spears show I had to review years ago. She was going through her "I'm not a girl, yet not a woman" shtick, and I remember writing, at the time, come on, there are people younger than you dying in Iraq, your coy act is stupid.

Trucker *hat*, ugh. And I love Kentucky, btw.

These kids/kidults/whatever are SO not going to have their lives ruined.

He's old enough to grasp the evil that lies at the heart of his community and hence old enough to rebel against his family, his teachers and his neighbours, having understood within himself – for these things spontaneously occur once you hit a certain age, especially when you're a millennial, i.e. wired to be woke – that his surroundings are all founded on heinous lies. Never mind that he lacks any firsthand experience of diversity, having been raised within a xenophobic bubble of white American mediocrity, he is privy to the same universal human consciousness as the rest of us. Indeed, we can all instinctively agree that his actions were wrong – our environment, the values we are taught to uphold, the ethical experience we've acquired over the years, all of these incidental details are swept away by our shared natural understanding of what is right and meet, which transcends both time and place.

publicly acting the fucker is not a protected act

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