if you've never seen a woman smirk you've never met a woman
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:47 (five years ago) link
as Bryan Adams once sang
― Sarri, Sarri, pride of our alley (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:48 (five years ago) link
Lol
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:48 (five years ago) link
have you ever reallyreally really ever pwned a woman
― calumy (rip van wanko), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:50 (five years ago) link
ime a lot of ritual internet public shaming is comprised of ppl who were shamed as children and have been carrying around the anger and resentment for years looking for an opportunity to transmit their suffering to someone new (and in their mind more deserving)
The victim becomes the oppressor, often at the first opportunity. Welcome to Earth.
Treeship, how old are you? Knowing this will really help me read and understand your posts, no joke.
― grawlix (unperson), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:50 (five years ago) link
ctrl+f for 'only white males smirk'...one result?!? Weird.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:51 (five years ago) link
Of course y’all would immediately reframe this conversation to remove the actions of the person being shamed from the equation and focus entirely on some bizarre Freudian analysis of the people doing the work of holding them to account
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:51 (five years ago) link
unperson: you often seem like someone who bullies ppl to deal with your own insecurities and history of bullying so maybe knowledge of this information isn't enough to break the cycle?
OL: if you haven't seen the implication that smirking is particularly a crime of the privileged white male and not behavior all humans participate in then i suspect you either haven't been following the discourse around this closely or elided some of the subtext?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:52 (five years ago) link
Shaming is particularly useful at this historical moment, because we have in place a set of social norms that are a remnant of a more civilized time: before the 2016 election.
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:53 (five years ago) link
They got up that close to your face, mordy? With other women laughing the background. I enjoyed that Bryan Adams song.
The white woman calling 911 on black people is also a very visual/modern signifier of how white women have always been partner to white supremacy and they will do a lot of shitty things to retain what power they do have in it.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:53 (five years ago) link
Dan I: I don't believe you're an antisemite but maybe there's a lesson to be learnt about how we should judge ppl's words and actions compassionately even when they act like thoughtless assholes even if they may be signaling bigoted beliefs?
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:53 (five years ago) link
Unperson I am 29 and I have asked you to killfile me. Peace xp
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:54 (five years ago) link
Now I have go find that thread about smirky animated characters, a la Kung Fu Panda.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:55 (five years ago) link
You are all so wrong, here are a whole bunch of people of color smurfing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGD51BXPwa4
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:56 (five years ago) link
Oh wait
Treesh is around 30 but I think he adopts the mindset of a naïf as an exercise, which I can’t really object to
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:58 (five years ago) link
he's just a thoughtful & sensitive person. he's not a naif. he's sometimes soft-spoken.
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 15:58 (five years ago) link
Watch out for that stick he's carrying though.
― Never Turn Your Back On Virginia Woolf (Tom D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
xpost maybe he's just a nice guy. Although, since he uses social media that seems impossible.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
well idk about a stick
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
See that’s the thing Mordy, some people deserve public shaming and some don’t. I’m not worried that people will think I’m an anti-Semite because it’s obvious that I’m not. The MAGA hat chuds should be very worried that they will experience the consequences of people thinking that they’re white supremacists—because they are in fact white supremacists
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:00 (five years ago) link
he quits social media all the time tho and then is dragged back in (sorry for talking so much about u tres), i think he finds it physically painful (tho otoh who doesn't)
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:01 (five years ago) link
xp fyi it's not obvious that you're not
wins otm
― mh, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:01 (five years ago) link
I've read ethnographic studies on egalitarian societies where shaming is used as a formalized means of social control to keep potential upstarts from getting too big for their britches. The implication being that a dose of mild clowning is strike one but that continued infractions will lead to banishment from the community or, y'know, straight-up execution. Without some formalized structure or an understanding on all sides of what the roles of the shamer and the shame-ee entail, it's kinda just like...aimless vigilante flailing in an attempt to shore up the extent to which our law/society fails to adequately address malignant transgressive behavior.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:02 (five years ago) link
i give ppl the benefit of the doubt on these sorts of things pretty much always so i'm inclined to say you were just thoughtless and dumb when you made your comments but other ppl disagreed and i wasn't 100% sure myself. xxp
― Mordy, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:02 (five years ago) link
My partner uses absolutely no social media and is like a baby panda.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:03 (five years ago) link
Aww
― I have measured out my life in coffee shop loyalty cards (silby), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:04 (five years ago) link
I am however apparently a very poor speller in the absence of autocorrect! Xposts
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:05 (five years ago) link
Stick or shtick?
― tokyo rosemary, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:06 (five years ago) link
aimless: vigilante flailing in an attempt to shore up the extent to which our law/society fails to adequately address malignant transgressive behavior.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:02 (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
i think he should adopt this persona fwiw
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:13 (five years ago) link
Make it a case study then— Public shaming is about making the truth of someone’s actions widely known. Here’s the video of the chud kids (“full video” or not, take your pick, they don’t come off any better in any version) everybody, here they are captured on film. They aren’t being publicly shamed so much as bringing shame upon themselves
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:15 (five years ago) link
Same thing with dragging a maga hat wearing child into the public square.
Resolved: That a rich Catholic school boy who got bused in with a whole bunch of other rich Catholic school boys to stand around Washington DC telling women they shouldn't be allowed to get abortions didn't get "dragged into" shit.
― Plinka Trinka Banga Tink (Eliza D.), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:20 (five years ago) link
I think a degree of self-shaming is necessary as a corrective against antisocial behavior but what do you do in a world where a generation of people have watched other people coast to fame (and the White House) on a wave of shamelessness, thus blunting much of the impact and the impetus of shaming?
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:22 (five years ago) link
ie is shame a concept that mostly only holds water with us olds?
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:23 (five years ago) link
eliza d otm.
― Yerac, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:24 (five years ago) link
It’s not about making them feel bad. If the chud kids have a hard time getting into colleges, finding girlfriends, getting jobs, then the public shaming worked.
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:25 (five years ago) link
I feel the same about all convicted felons
― Sarri, Sarri, pride of our alley (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:26 (five years ago) link
I feel like shaming when Cee-Lo says "it's not rape if you don't remember" is valid and necessary.
Public shaming for an unintentional, minor transgression by an individual, less helpful than teachable moment.
Former more common than latter.
MAGA kid can't claim he and his cohorts wore MAGA hats in a very public place, took of their shirts and showed their asses in public, then act like they have any expectation of privacy. Wah wah.
― fuck the NRA (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:28 (five years ago) link
Felons have never had the option of pretending they aren’t felons. Shaming forces everyone to take that same responsibility for their words and actions
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:29 (five years ago) link
I’m trying to agree find common ground with the Captain Save-a-MAGAs: we won’t shame him if we can all agree that he needs that smirk punched off his face (a la Spencer) at 12:01am on his 18th Birthday.
― Andrew "Hit Dice" Clay (PBKR), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:33 (five years ago) link
No one is saying the kid is a cool guy, just that it’s weird for national publications like Slate to put someone so young on blast for smirking. It’s displaced anger. The chaperones are responsible for the behavior of the kids on the trip and the Republican Party is responsible for promoting a toxic, craven and bigoted form of politics across the nation.
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:40 (five years ago) link
Just to clarify, I’m ok with the chaperones getting punched also.
― Andrew "Hit Dice" Clay (PBKR), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
The chaperones are responsible for the behavior of the kids on the trip
FUCK no
― How ILX Finally Stopped Shredding Everything in Sight (WmC), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
No ones accusing them of a crime! Their being under 18 does absolutely nothing to excuse their actions
― Dan I., Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
idk trís
totally emboldened asshole bigots dont spring fully formed at 18
v handwavey there about agency of this fella and the many like him
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:44 (five years ago) link
does no such option exist in america? in other countries it does. it's possible to show compassion towards criminals. people's behaviour has mitigating circumstances. otherwise why not just stone people to death or jail them for life? why have varying sentences? not sure the punitive mindset has functioned particularly well in dealing with people's bad behaviour yet it seems fairly popular in recent times.
― FernandoHierro, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:45 (five years ago) link
I didn't know ILX to be such a staunch opponent of social determinism.
― pomenitul, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:46 (five years ago) link
^
― Trϵϵship, Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:47 (five years ago) link
or when they murder their spouses, partners, strangers...
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:16 (five years ago) link
I'm saying qualitatively. It's not often a righteous expression of anger. I'm not forgetting the thing where the sum of western history is replete with destruction born of that petulance.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:21 (five years ago) link
when I talk about rage and anger I am thinking of when I tell other women they should be angrier.
i understand -- howeverbeing shamed (see thread title) into demonstrating my anger more publicly so people can see it doesn't seem like a good solution. in fact, it feels divisive (and even a little cruel) considering the effect that anger has on me in particular. i am plenty righteous but expressing it publicly is something i only do irl where people can see and hear my physical self. i don't express anger and rage very much online because it is unproductive and not good for me, like taking a rage pill that gives me a monster hangover.
i am not into public shaming in general tbh
― weird woman in a bar (La Lechera), Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:45 (five years ago) link
Anger is a human emotion that shouldn’t be repressed. It simply is. Violent, abusive expressions of anger are always wrong (this doesn’t include self defense) but that’s not the same thing as anger itself.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:49 (five years ago) link
xpost yeah i think we got sidetracked off the original topic. I was probably speaking more generally. And more about real life because I think having an opinion on the internet as a woman, using your real name, is too dangerous.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:51 (five years ago) link
The issue is never people should be “less angry” about injustice or watch their “tone” or try not to alienate people or whatever—that’s not the issue. People should express themselves.
Public shaming is a separate issue. It’s a tactic that sometimes is necessary—cf. metoo many named in #metoo that weren’t otherwise being held to account—but can sometimes also be ugly and gratuitous and just another case of bullying, completely disconnected from the initial motive of fighting inequality. So it’s situational.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:53 (five years ago) link
I think I actually sound a lot angrier in writing than I appear in person. It's probably the same amount of anger, but everyone physically handles it/compartmentalizes a different way.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:56 (five years ago) link
It seems like a lot of ppl come across differently online. Unperson seems to think I am a college freshman.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 24 January 2019 15:57 (five years ago) link
haha! everyone is envisioning you in your dorm trying to make your first meal. yeah, i mean I would say the same things in person but seeing a person and hearing tone makes all the difference.
― Yerac, Thursday, 24 January 2019 16:01 (five years ago) link
My big regret with ilx is that my jokes don’t come axross as well as irl. That or irl people laugh politely.
― Trϵϵship, Thursday, 24 January 2019 16:03 (five years ago) link
I mean it's so obvious that it hardly seems worth mentioning and yet also so consistently overlooked that it bears incessant repeating, but so much of the trouble stirred up by contentious online interactions is instantiated by the inability to see other people as like fully-formed people who have a whole existence beyond the typed words you're reading.
Feel like the story of Lindy West confronting her troll may be hella germane wrt this general topic of conversation.
― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Thursday, 24 January 2019 16:07 (five years ago) link
so is public shaming good or bad?
― flopson, Thursday, 24 January 2019 18:44 (five years ago) link
we actually got that sorted ages back
its good when you like it and bad when you dont
― topical mlady (darraghmac), Thursday, 24 January 2019 18:46 (five years ago) link
i think you mean, 'is it Classic or Dud'
― ILX’s bad boy (D-40), Thursday, 24 January 2019 23:52 (five years ago) link