Public Shaming C/D?

Of course y’all would immediately reframe this conversation to remove the actions of the person being shamed from the equation and focus entirely on some bizarre Freudian analysis of the people doing the work of holding them to account

unperson: you often seem like someone who bullies ppl to deal with your own insecurities and history of bullying so maybe knowledge of this information isn't enough to break the cycle?

OL: if you haven't seen the implication that smirking is particularly a crime of the privileged white male and not behavior all humans participate in then i suspect you either haven't been following the discourse around this closely or elided some of the subtext?

Shaming is particularly useful at this historical moment, because we have in place a set of social norms that are a remnant of a more civilized time: before the 2016 election.

They got up that close to your face, mordy? With other women laughing the background. I enjoyed that Bryan Adams song.

The white woman calling 911 on black people is also a very visual/modern signifier of how white women have always been partner to white supremacy and they will do a lot of shitty things to retain what power they do have in it.

Dan I: I don't believe you're an antisemite but maybe there's a lesson to be learnt about how we should judge ppl's words and actions compassionately even when they act like thoughtless assholes even if they may be signaling bigoted beliefs?

Unperson I am 29 and I have asked you to killfile me. Peace xp

Unperson I am 29 and I have asked you to killfile me. Peace xp

Now I have go find that thread about smirky animated characters, a la Kung Fu Panda.

You are all so wrong, here are a whole bunch of people of color smurfing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGD51BXPwa4

Oh wait

Treesh is around 30 but I think he adopts the mindset of a naïf as an exercise, which I can’t really object to

he's just a thoughtful & sensitive person. he's not a naif. he's sometimes soft-spoken.

Watch out for that stick he's carrying though.

xpost maybe he's just a nice guy. Although, since he uses social media that seems impossible.

well idk about a stick

See that’s the thing Mordy, some people deserve public shaming and some don’t. I’m not worried that people will think I’m an anti-Semite because it’s obvious that I’m not. The MAGA hat chuds should be very worried that they will experience the consequences of people thinking that they’re white supremacists—because they are in fact white supremacists

he quits social media all the time tho and then is dragged back in (sorry for talking so much about u tres), i think he finds it physically painful (tho otoh who doesn't)

xp fyi it's not obvious that you're not

wins otm

I've read ethnographic studies on egalitarian societies where shaming is used as a formalized means of social control to keep potential upstarts from getting too big for their britches. The implication being that a dose of mild clowning is strike one but that continued infractions will lead to banishment from the community or, y'know, straight-up execution. Without some formalized structure or an understanding on all sides of what the roles of the shamer and the shame-ee entail, it's kinda just like...aimless vigilante flailing in an attempt to shore up the extent to which our law/society fails to adequately address malignant transgressive behavior.

i give ppl the benefit of the doubt on these sorts of things pretty much always so i'm inclined to say you were just thoughtless and dumb when you made your comments but other ppl disagreed and i wasn't 100% sure myself. xxp

My partner uses absolutely no social media and is like a baby panda.

Aww

I am however apparently a very poor speller in the absence of autocorrect! Xposts

Watch out for that stick he's carrying though.

Stick or shtick?

aimless: vigilante flailing in an attempt to shore up the extent to which our law/society fails to adequately address malignant transgressive behavior.

― E Pluripubis Unum (Old Lunch), Tuesday, 22 January 2019 16:02 (ten minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

i think he should adopt this persona fwiw

Make it a case study then— Public shaming is about making the truth of someone’s actions widely known. Here’s the video of the chud kids (“full video” or not, take your pick, they don’t come off any better in any version) everybody, here they are captured on film. They aren’t being publicly shamed so much as bringing shame upon themselves

Same thing with dragging a maga hat wearing child into the public square.

Resolved: That a rich Catholic school boy who got bused in with a whole bunch of other rich Catholic school boys to stand around Washington DC telling women they shouldn't be allowed to get abortions didn't get "dragged into" shit.

I think a degree of self-shaming is necessary as a corrective against antisocial behavior but what do you do in a world where a generation of people have watched other people coast to fame (and the White House) on a wave of shamelessness, thus blunting much of the impact and the impetus of shaming?

ie is shame a concept that mostly only holds water with us olds?

eliza d otm.

It’s not about making them feel bad. If the chud kids have a hard time getting into colleges, finding girlfriends, getting jobs, then the public shaming worked.

I feel the same about all convicted felons

I feel like shaming when Cee-Lo says "it's not rape if you don't remember" is valid and necessary.

Public shaming for an unintentional, minor transgression by an individual, less helpful than teachable moment.

Former more common than latter.

MAGA kid can't claim he and his cohorts wore MAGA hats in a very public place, took of their shirts and showed their asses in public, then act like they have any expectation of privacy. Wah wah.

Felons have never had the option of pretending they aren’t felons. Shaming forces everyone to take that same responsibility for their words and actions

I’m trying to agree find common ground with the Captain Save-a-MAGAs: we won’t shame him if we can all agree that he needs that smirk punched off his face (a la Spencer) at 12:01am on his 18th Birthday.

No one is saying the kid is a cool guy, just that it’s weird for national publications like Slate to put someone so young on blast for smirking. It’s displaced anger. The chaperones are responsible for the behavior of the kids on the trip and the Republican Party is responsible for promoting a toxic, craven and bigoted form of politics across the nation.

Just to clarify, I’m ok with the chaperones getting punched also.

The chaperones are responsible for the behavior of the kids on the trip

FUCK no

No ones accusing them of a crime! Their being under 18 does absolutely nothing to excuse their actions

idk trís

totally emboldened asshole bigots dont spring fully formed at 18

v handwavey there about agency of this fella and the many like him

Felons have never had the option of pretending they aren’t felons. Shaming forces everyone to take that same responsibility for their words and actions

does no such option exist in america? in other countries it does. it's possible to show compassion towards criminals. people's behaviour has mitigating circumstances. otherwise why not just stone people to death or jail them for life? why have varying sentences? not sure the punitive mindset has functioned particularly well in dealing with people's bad behaviour yet it seems fairly popular in recent times.

I didn't know ILX to be such a staunch opponent of social determinism.

^

Sorry menat to one up fernando

Like the kid only matters as an example. Do we want to resist right wing populism by zeroing in on one person at a time and pecking them to death? Would that even work? The live in their own spheres anyway and will just see one another more and more as victims.

We could peck more to death with A.I. birds

Now we're talkin'.

If you had the technology to peck every single trump supporter to death, that at least would have the benefit of being effective

It serves to marginalize them. It serves to reinforce the idea that what they did is and should be widely considered Wrong. It serves to prevent their behavior from becoming normalized.

I think I actually sound a lot angrier in writing than I appear in person. It's probably the same amount of anger, but everyone physically handles it/compartmentalizes a different way.

It seems like a lot of ppl come across differently online. Unperson seems to think I am a college freshman.

haha! everyone is envisioning you in your dorm trying to make your first meal. yeah, i mean I would say the same things in person but seeing a person and hearing tone makes all the difference.

My big regret with ilx is that my jokes don’t come axross as well as irl. That or irl people laugh politely.

I mean it's so obvious that it hardly seems worth mentioning and yet also so consistently overlooked that it bears incessant repeating, but so much of the trouble stirred up by contentious online interactions is instantiated by the inability to see other people as like fully-formed people who have a whole existence beyond the typed words you're reading.

Feel like the story of Lindy West confronting her troll may be hella germane wrt this general topic of conversation.

so is public shaming good or bad?

we actually got that sorted ages back

its good when you like it and bad when you dont

i think you mean, 'is it Classic or Dud'