a thread for bitching about our right wing family members

Brexit is obviously a fantastic example of this, at different points for my cousin the idea of hard brexit has been a) great because we won't have to deal with all these rules and tariffs, and b) great because we can have all these tariffs to protect the economy. Sometimes in the same sentence

in some ways dishonesty is maybe the wrong word, its more like a disdain for detail, stop worrying about it and learn to love the concept

been thinking about this lately with a friend who has become a more significant part of my life lately - she is so kind, so considerate, so thoughtful and often hilarious in the matters of every day life. She loves Rupaul's Drag Race and her views on LGBT issues are more progressive than she realises, as a result of ideas discussed in it (that sounds silly, I know). But her views on feminism and immigration and wildly problematic, to the point where it's uncomfortable to introduce her to new people. And I (well, many of us) have tried challenging her on this stuff and sometimes you see it go through but sometimes it doesn't. And I wonder, if the natural consequence of this is that she doesn't get invited to social situations, which is the way it's going, am I actually helping her by not exposing her to new people and situations where her perspectives are challenged and reshaped and altered?

Does she notice this uncomfortableness? Who are the ones that are feeling uncomfortable? Like, how does it manifest

its really uncomfortable for me, for the people she drops these opinions in front of, but she brazen through it with "I get how you feel but this is what I believe" chutzpah. For example we were out for dinner with two other pals a few weeks ago and she dropped a clanger and there was a definite moment of drawn breath which was steamrollered over with "but clearly you guys disagree so let's look at this menu instead"

Recently my cousin and father had an extended political argument in the house. Neither of them are very bright, we're talking "But Venezeula!" levels. Rather than leave the room to avoid this inanity I decided to stay and carry on reading. I did feel the urge rising to say something, but quelled it and stayed reading in silence, and that stomach tightening feeling, it started to dissipate, it was so good! relief as i realized i wasn't going to get tricked into this nonsense. Eventually my father appealed to me to back up whatever he was saying. I said "i've no idea, don't know anything about it"

this is a fantastic experience btw and ime once you get really good at disconnecting you can have these interjections or make these points and do it in a totally calm detached way and ppl will listen to you! and if they don't and start yelling and freaking out you can smile and say, 'ok, you disagree no worries,' and go back to ignoring them. once you are not hooked by the emotional terrain of the political discourse you can say and do whatever you want. the key is looking at it like a game without any real stakes (even if it may in fact have real stakes).

any political arguments or vv animated discussions about "the bad shit the other side is doing" tend to make me check out completely, the former are really just chest-beating nonsense a lot of the time and the latter seem pretty self-defeating. neither are as excruciating as the friends i have whose entire social media presences are defined by their politics. i've said this before but it almost doesn't matter which side they fall on, bc even when i agree with the positions being taken i can't stand the manner in which they're taken. you can take very firm stands but you can do it in ways that aren't aggressive, since i don't think aggression works.

i mean the right being aggressive against the left certainly doesn't convert anyone. the most RW person i know is a very soft-spoken and boring transphobic misogynist whose bland IRL persona is turned into a "fact" and "logic"-based approach to online discourse that makes anyone being argumentative look foolish, and since those debates are about appearances, it doesn't matter how correct you may be. if you are too OTT in the face of calmness, you look like you've lost your cool. i think anyone who's debated politics has lost their cool at one point or another. this guy is very sharp about it and has gained a large following among younger people, because his extremely online brand of level-headed sociopathy and humor is appealing to many of them.

anyway this is rambling now, but i never argue politics anymore. when my family members start ranting about the villainy of the right wing, i tell them to chill and just be positive and focus on the things that can be done to make things better. which actually annoys them, but i almost always agree with them! I just don't think it's healthy to dwell on it and stress out too much. fight, but don't despair. point to answers not to the problems. etc.

one area of disagreement i'll always have with ILX is the idea that emotional modulation / calmness / lack of anger are always virtuous and aren't an exclusive weapon of the privileged but rather healthy behaviors we can all aspire to

yeah was just going to pick a section of that for 'new board description'

once you are not hooked by the emotional terrain of the political discourse you can say and do whatever you want. the key is looking at it like a game without any real stakes (even if it may in fact have real stakes).

very good advice imo

doing Mardi Gras with my cool cousin, his chill wife & their kids but also with my Fox-poisoned parents and my wealthy, politically active borderline extremist aunt & uncle. we haven't all been in the same place in over 15 years. should be interesting.

boxedjoy: do you discuss it with your friend afterwards? Saying "I felt a bit uncomfortable when this happened" - is it possible to avoid these topics in those situations? Who is bringin them up and why are they recurring?

i think anger works a fair amount of the time and is necessary in plenty of situations but i think lots of everyday discourse has gone too far towards the despair and a sort of "look at this bad shit that's happening" article-linking, and that kind of acknowledgement of the bad shit replaces doing anything to change it. idk.

once you are not hooked by the emotional terrain of the political discourse you can say and do whatever you want. the key is looking at it like a game without any real stakes (even if it may in fact have real stakes).

i think that says it better than i did

omar thoroughly otm

i just want to say that my heart goes out to anyone dealing with this kind of thing regularly. it's so taxing. i'm pretty distant from my family and I've insulated myself from a lot of right-wing stuff over time because i'm vulnerable and it tends to trigger me.

my housemate had a party a few weekends ago and this dude came who gave me the creeps, just seemed to constantly spout things on the edge of *controversial* in like a joe rogan masculinity-in-crisis podcast sense. he had a lackey friend with him and all three of us were sharing the porch for a minute, they were talking their joe rogan type stuff (I forget what exactly) and I just started rolling my eyes and snoring loudly, that's all, just snoring for like a minute. it was very satisfying lol.

I was thinking, tangentially of when leftist guests go on Fox News - knowing they are going into a hostile environment where they will be interrupted constantly, and are there to be the heel. And then who decides to go on, who doesn't, why they decide to - and how they approach it. its actually a lot tougher than just a family type environment because you can't just check out, you still need to get your viewpoint across.

Its no wonder when guests bomb or do badly, precisely because of this, but I thought Kyle Kulinski's video on his Fox appearance was interesting. The Right Wing radio host he's up against is ludicrous

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pbsVr_EKMc

I think the trick is to repeatedly say "you mad"

abt that video: but Cory Bush clearly IS a bad candidate if she isn't familiar w basics of the tax code. She didn't merely answer the question "poorly" or "fumble" it. She seemed not to know what she was talking about.

just started rolling my eyes and snoring loudly, that's all, just snoring for like a minute. it was very satisfying lol.

hahahah nice