US by jordan peele

Oh yeah and interesting to see with a packed-out and fairly vocal crowd that I realized was probably generally at least twenty years younger than me. I kept wondering why people were more audibly spooked than I was but then it made obvious sense later.

Oh and: remembering how Peele rates Branagh's Dead Again means all the scissors stuff makes for an intriguing callback.

I don’t know... certainly was gripping, solid performances, one very impressive shot (toward the end - red Adelaide ECU frame right, Adelaide in BG), paced well, but the “message” here - there is one, it’s spelled out early on (“who are you?” “we’re Americans” - give me a break) - is too obtuse or simply not fleshed out enough to work. “US” double entendre, the MAGA red jumpsuits, people “rising up.” It’s reasonable to be disappointed by a movie that clearly sets out to say something and fails. No one but horror fans would care about this movie if it wasn’t made by the guy that did Get Out.

I suspect the millions who made Get Out a smash thought it a reasonably well done horror film. They do well in the box office, you know! People don't think about messages. The far worse A Quiet Place was a massive hit last year, remember?

but the “message” here - there is one, it’s spelled out early on (“who are you?” “we’re Americans” - give me a break) - is too obtuse or simply not fleshed out enough to work.

Just posted about the can't-miss symbolism in the Trump Films thread. I don't know, I think that's probably the best thing about the film (and Get Out). Peele is really talented, but I agree with the David Edelstein review I just read: the horror-film stuff almost holds him back--I find all that stuff a clever collage of other horror films at best, rather conventional at worst.

Sure, reasonably well done - that is a disappointment after Get Out, and the crowd I saw it with was totally tepid on it. Not that everyone will go in expecting a new social horror from Jordan Peele (though I know many will), but the “message” in Get Out is fully integrated into its dramaturgy. The horror and the message are one and the same. That’s what made Get Out so powerful, and it’s a high bar. This one is so much more obscure & confusing frankly.

Would love to talk spoilers because I have a problem with a pivotal monologue and the ending

I think this should be expected/assumed to be a spoilery space by now. Mark them with warnings if yer concerned.

yes

I did not get what the final twist added to the story tbh

made clear the Tethered's behavior was a matter of nurture and not nature, for one

that said I sort of assumed the twist before it was made explicit

Spoiler warning...To go back to the illogicality, though: if you've got mom and shadow-mom, and they spend the film going at each other, how, at the last minute, can you say that mom is shadow-mom? That doesn't work.

Another minor quibble. Before shadow-family shows up, mom tells dad that there have been all these coincidences anticipating their arrival. What were there, maybe three? The bible guy being taken away in an ambulance, okay, but the others were pretty weak: frisbee lands on a circle, clock shows 11:11...they're not even coincidences.

Spoiler warning...To go back to the illogicality, though: if you've got mom and shadow-mom, and they spend the film going at each other, how, at the last minute, can you say that mom is shadow-mom? That doesn't work.

This was my problem too.

i'm excited to watch it again

ending at the very least has at least caused me to think about this movie for days

Spoilers-I guess the twist shows that there's no intrinsic difference between the characters and their shadow selves, but I agree the twist wasn't necessary to drive this home. I've been trying to decide whether, if there was a message here, the twist strengthened or weakened it. I'm leaning towards thinking the movie would have been better without it.
When the presumed-shadow mom said to the actual-shadow mom, "You could have taken me with you" doesn't a line like that have more resonance without them having been switched?
I also would have liked it better without so much explanation, like that monologue at the chalkboard. (And while Lupita N'yongo was great, I found that voice difficult)

I thought the two most effective scenes were the opening in the funhouse, particularly where the girl spots her double from behind (interesting that this is what Rod Serling said inspired the TZ episode that Jordan Peele cites as inspiration for this) and the scene with the shadow family standing silently in the driveway, After that there was really no tension in the movie for me-and it was very early in the movie for the tension to be broken. It was still fun and entertaining, and the performances were all good.

that said I sort of assumed the twist before it was made explicit

Man, crazy that Larry Cohen's passed away this weekend given Miriam Bale's quite apt call via that tweet posted above. Us really DOES feel like a Cohen film, and I mean that incredibly positively.

As for said twist, I honestly was surprised, which may explain something of me more than anything else. But that made me more intrigued, not less.

Saw this friday night with a tipsy and excitable crowd, so much fun. Everyone really connecting on a visceral level.

I didn't assume the twist, but it occurred to me from the scene at the beginning with the the child psychologist. I'm not the biggest fan of twists in general. At least I'm still thinking about this one.
Maybe the twist and exposition were partly a way of explaining away the horror-movie convention of the central characters being treated so differently from others who were seemingly dispatched so expediently, but I don't think it was really necessary.

the shadow family standing silently in the driveway

Probably my favourite image in the film.

As you can tell, I have problems with the execution of the film. Most of all how prolonged the last 15 or 20 minutes felt, but, more broadly, from the moment the shadow-mom explains her life in the living room, right up until the final twist, it's basically just one long attempt by the Wilsons to escape; I don't know that there's a single new bit of information in that stretch, and that's half the film.

The more I think about it, though, I think the conception of the film--the Trump interpretation, which to me is inescapable (not to say that there aren't valid psychological interpretations concerning the self)--is fantastic. Family looks uncomprehendingly on some monstrous version of itself, one fueled by rage and resentment that has literally crawled up from the sewer (which, speaking honestly, is how most Democrats view most Trump voters).

"Who are you people?"
"We're Americans."

That's perfect--and coming from an African-American filmmaker, generous and empathetic above and beyond. I've always thought that at moments of great peril, a horror film can go places that more literal films can't get anywhere near. Night of the Living Dead and Rosemary's Baby confronting 1968, The Texas Chainsaw Massacre for Watergate and the Nixon meltdown, etc. Us is pretty great at that level, I'd say.

This was decent
Didn't enjoy as much as Get Out

I was looking forward to a hysterical Armond White review, but they assigned it to someone else (to be fair? doubtful):

http://www.nationalreview.com/2019/03/jordan-peeles-get-out-follow-up/

Kinda ok with the twist. I mean it makes sense in that Red was weirdly the only tethered that spoke, and why she refused to kill the doppelganger kids and screamed when Pluto immolated.

And it does reframe her fear - someone is a lot more likely to fear someone coming back to take revenge if they know they wronged somebody violently years ago....and are inadvertently returning to their lair. Though are we really meant to believe that as many years as they visited that summer home, they never went to Santa Cruz beach once? Wouldn't Adelaide be anxious vacationing in a summer home that close to the scene of the crime?

But I also wonder how the tethered broke free enough of their hosts to be independent. Presumably that's what Red taught them to do? Since both bodies shared one soul. Explains why Pluto was weaker and just copied his host whereas the others didn't.

Thought it was pretty good. May see again.

“We’re Americans” is the clunkiest bit in the movie! MAGA red jumpsuit sewer people “rising up” gets the message across fine. What does the line even mean? I also take back what I said about it being well paced, it’s not, like others have said above it’s half an hour of build up and then a thrilling chase, and an exposition dump in the last 20 minutes. There’s no space to expand on whatever sociopolitical message was intended because of the very long chase. So we get the Americans line which sticks out like a sore thumb, and the wall across America of MAGA red shadow people at the end.

Good ingredients here. Shockingly bad execution.

They were mimicking Hands Across America, which the young Adelaide saw a commercial for on TV. One of the clues that Red was really Adelaide. They even reminded the audience of this before the twist.

It's not clunky at all. If you think it's overkill, then get rid of the red jumpsuits--I do not believe that most people (I certainly didn't) immediately equate red with MAGA; I don't believe red has been subsumed under that one very specific meaning.

In addition to the line showing solidarity amongst the Tethered, a show of power and uprising, it could also be seen as a critique of fundraisers like HAA, which made people feel warm and fuzzy inside, but fell way short of its fundraising goal and is looked upon with cynicism in retrospect

Xpost

I don't believe red has been subsumed under that one very specific meaning

What about the phrase "red America"? (I haven't seen the movie yet.)

What does the line even mean?

Doesn't seem especially opaque. It means they're Americans, just like the Wilsons.

(xpost) Okay, but historically, red also the meant the red scare of the '50s--it meant the opposite. For me, "We're Americans" states very simply and very eloquently the heart of the film.

Having just re-watched Malcolm X for the umpteenth time, I'd also say it turns Malcolm's great "Before we were Democrats or Republicans..." speech on its head. That ends (or is situated close to the end) with "Before we were Americans, we were black."

my problem with "We're Americans" is it suddenly foregrounds a political statement in a movie otherwise full of vague & far less didactic commentary. I shouldn't have asked what it means, really I want to know why it's there to stand alone right before an hour of apolitical horror thriller chase begins. a wall of zombie shadow people wearing red jumpsuits stretched across America seems obviously a Trump image to me. But this movie doesn't give us enough to go off of to say one way or another.

They were mimicking Hands Across America, which the young Adelaide saw a commercial for on TV. One of the clues that Red was really Adelaide. They even reminded the audience of this before the twist.

― early to board the Buttigieg train (Neanderthal)

I know. All of this is impossible to miss. Doesn't make the metaphor any clearer, particularly when all this is shoved into the very beginning and very ending of the movie.

The red jumpsuits didn't automatically bring Trump to my mind. The connection does seem obvious, but the symbolism of the color red, particularly in a horror context, are vague enough that I wouldn't just flatly equate the two.

I do agree that the "We're Americans" line felt awkward, but specifically because that moment felt markedly more pointed and topical than the rest of the symbolism, including the red jumpsuits.

Could the red suits be a nod to Conquest of the Planet of the Apes, wherein the slave apes wear red jumpsuits?

I do agree that the "We're Americans" line felt awkward, but specifically because that moment felt markedly more pointed and topical than the rest of the symbolism, including the red jumpsuits.

Exactly, and that line alone is what suggests the jumpsuits are MAGA red. yes, of course the color red has many, many symbolic meanings, but that line - which comes out of nowhere - invites a Trumpist/"red America" reading of the rest of the (much more vague) symbolism in the movie.

Pointed and topical is not inherently bad. I'm not ceding an inch on this--that line has to stay. If you want, keep it in for dummies like me. I mean, you've just said that the line is what gives the jumpsuits their meaning...I don't know why you'd prefer vague symbolism to something concrete. It's not like he piles on one Trump reference after another.

I was thinking that maybe the ending operates on a Fight Club level. Edward Norton does battle with Brad Pitt (sometimes), in the end they're the same person. I think, anyway--I hate Fight Club.

Being pointed and topical can be amazing (Get Out), but imo Peele doesn't follow through on that line. The line doesn't give their jumpsuits their meaning, but it's the only point we have to go off of. The line makes it obvious there's something to the horror beyond a genre exercise, so................... what is it? and the twist totally complicates all of this.

I don't know why you'd prefer vague symbolism to something concrete

More to think about. But again, it's not that there isn't much to mull over here, I just have no idea what Peele wants us to mull over in the first place.

Saw it again. Now that i wasn't trying to guess the damn twist, I loved it. Genuinely unsettling.

I like the ending. I think though the key to the awkwardness of how previous dialogue seems not to make sense is that Adelaide actually doesn't remember she is the kidnapper until the end. Whereas Red has been underground for 30+ years not talking so it stands to reason her voice is labored from disuse. And she's probably gone a little mad.

It STILL doesn't work perfectly but hey, there have been much more egregious "unreliable narrator" twists.

I did like how Adelaide's language degrades into a primal scream when killing Red. A bit of remembrance of her past prior to having to "act" as Adelaide again when she finds her son.

Vox (yea fuck off) pointed out the line to Elizabeth Moss about "sometimes having trouble talking" might have been subconsciously
a literal statement. Since she had to learn English after being almost ten years behind her peers. Plus old instincts etc

not bad, but nowhere near as good as Get Out

twist was so east to guess cmon

Neanderthal's post makes me understand something very basic that I was missing for some reason--they simply switched places in that funhouse 30 years ago. I was fixated on the idea that mom was somehow simultaneously herself and shadow-mom at the same time. So the ending isn't illogical; you can complain about it on other grounds, but it does make sense, I guess.

Why did Adelaide stay in the tunnels all those years when Red was able to escape fairly easily?

“we’re americans” is an amazing and awesome line

that it’s difficult to derive a single clear message from this movie is... good

and i’m just gonna say i liked this better than get out

The line doesn't give their jumpsuits their meaning, but it's the only point we have to go off of. The line makes it obvious there's something to the horror beyond a genre exercise, so................... what is it? and the twist totally complicates all of this.

you want an explainer not a movie

I agree that the thematic ambiguity is good. I did find the actual script needlessly overburdened with content to interpret, incl "we're americans" tbh. things left unstated are much more unsettling.

I think “we’re Americans” works as deadpan, that’s how my engaged crowd seemed to take it, any other level aside.

Why did Adelaide stay in the tunnels all those years when Red was able to escape fairly easily?

― Chris L, Monday, March 25, 2019 7:38 AM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

She was handcuffed to her bed. Presumably someone eventually helped her out of it but perhaps it had been so long that she had no idea how she would get out and find her parents?

From 14 on she seemed more interested in inspiring the others.

And I just posted this in the "No" thread.

Hoping for a "Oh Hell No" director's cut.

NOPE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUgmq_8PlRY

Separate thread, my friend

Nope (dir. Jordan Peele)