Chicago: Where have all the serial killers gone?

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i'm sure you know more about what's proper than i do when it comes to punctuation (truthfully, most 4th graders probably do too) but it seems to me that the quotation marks become part of the phrase and therefore must come before the punctuation mark. but, like julia, i can't be bothered to capitalize so take that with a grain of salt. or a gram of coke, whatever.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:33 (seventeen years ago) link

i enjoy snorting coke and discussing punctuation.

― Juulia (julesbdules), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:34 (seventeen years ago) link

let's hang out!

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:34 (seventeen years ago) link

UCP style says that if the punctuation (question mark, in this case) is part of the quote it goes inside the marks, and otherwise outside. I am not sure how this works for parentheses.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:38 (seventeen years ago) link

What about the comma? I can never remember.

eg: I thought I heard someone say "dyspepsia", but I was mistaken.
-or-
I thought I heard someone say "dyspepsia," but I was mistaken.

― molly d (mollyd), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:38 (seventeen years ago) link

i'd say "take it outside" toots.

(sorry for calling you toots).

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:39 (seventeen years ago) link

I like putting the period outside the quotes, but I always second-guess myself on this stuff.

What about this sentence: It can start with one good band that brings a style to a city, or keeps a regular gig, or just sparks people, and then kids say "YES, I wanna do THAT".

Should I have added another period after THAT?

― Jordan (Jordan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:41 (seventeen years ago) link

It would be kind of awesome if I walked down the way a little bit and got a copyeditor to answer all this stuff.

Oh, I'm not sure about commas, either. I suppose I could look it up...

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:43 (seventeen years ago) link

For some strange reason, I recall learning that it went inside. That being said, I'm easily confused.

(it's okay. you're not the only one who calls me "toots.")

― molly d (mollyd), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:44 (seventeen years ago) link

Personally, I always put punctuation inside quotes, parentheses, etc.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:44 (seventeen years ago) link

hey did i mention the free cigarette guys were at the note friday? i scored 6 packs. OF KOOLS!

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:45 (seventeen years ago) link

What about the comma? I can never remember.

Commas go inside the quotes. Why this is different than a period, I do not know.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:46 (seventeen years ago) link

Yes! I did remember something correctly!

― molly d (mollyd), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:47 (seventeen years ago) link

Personally, I always put punctuation inside quotes, parentheses, etc.

For parenthesis, unless the parenthesis contain a full sentence, this is always wrong.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link

By what standard? Kenan Manual Of Style? :)

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Example of wrongness:

I rather enjoyed the sandwich (though I did not care for the chips.)

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Hey, I looked it up, and of course we're both partially right and wrong. Like I said earlier, staying consistent is key no matter what.

That said, I am glad I am not a copy editor sometimes.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:52 (seventeen years ago) link

Partially right and wrong? Plz share the link.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:53 (seventeen years ago) link

so if you have a full sentence inside parens, do you use two periods? that seems like it would look silly. but it would seem awkward otherwise as well.

― Juulia (julesbdules), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:53 (seventeen years ago) link

(So glad to have missed the "debate"!)

― Eazy (Eazy), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:54 (seventeen years ago) link

No, no. Having a full sentence totally encapsulated in parentheses, punctuation and all, is perfectly alright.

xpost Eazy gets it!

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:55 (seventeen years ago) link

arrrrghhhhh noooo cant parse so much punctuation eazy

― Juulia (julesbdules), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:55 (seventeen years ago) link

No link, I got it from one of these "book" things.

xpost: yeah, I'm done with it too

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:56 (seventeen years ago) link

i was trying to think of a parens example and my brane just stopped

need some more coke

― Juulia (julesbdules), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:58 (seventeen years ago) link

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

― The Milkmaid (82375538-A) (The Milkmaid), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 19:59 (seventeen years ago) link

http://dyn.ifilm.com/image/stills/films/resize/istd/2681360.jpg

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:00 (seventeen years ago) link

A coked-out copy editor would be pretty funny.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:02 (seventeen years ago) link

It would be kind of awesome if I walked down the way a little bit and got a copyeditor to answer all this stuff.

Ahem!!

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:03 (seventeen years ago) link

I just wrote a detailed query on a page explaining why MC Hammer was not a "popular rapper of the 1980s" and suggesting that Beastie Boys or Fat Boys might be better additions to a list that already includes LL Cool J, De La Soul, and Run-DMC.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:05 (seventeen years ago) link

If you routinely edit copy, does that automatically make you a copy editor?

Granted, I'm routinely editing ad copy and fluffy happy talk, so if points of punctuation this subtle ever come up, I know the sentence is in trouble anyway.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:06 (seventeen years ago) link

Next time you need grammatical help, just ask me. (I'm what's known as a "copy editor," you see.)

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Sorry, J. I was more thinking of UCP style copy editors when I wrote that.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:09 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh, that's fine. My last post was mostly just an attempt at an example that used both quotes and parentheses.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:10 (seventeen years ago) link

I catalog. We have our own rules of punctuation called "AACR2" (Anglo-American Cataloging Rules 2). It can make one's brain hurt.

por ejemplo:

VI Congreso Internacional Galdosiano, 1997 ǂh [electronic resource] / ǂc edición de Yolanda Arencibia, María del Prado Escobar, Rosa María Quintana.

― molly d (mollyd), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:11 (seventeen years ago) link

It would also be great (in a head-banging-off-wall kind of way) to have this dicussion with the communication theorists and rhetoricians that I studied with/under. Throw any notions of "correct" and "incorrect" right out the fucking window.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:12 (seventeen years ago) link

I would just like to point out that I'm NOT a copy editor and they don't pay me enough to be one, and a few weeks ago I found a mistake in something that CAME from our copy editing department and was supposed to be checked & double-checked and approved. It's fixed now, but not before I trustingly put the typo-ed version in half a dozen books. :(((((

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:12 (seventeen years ago) link

My last post was mostly just an attempt at an example that used both quotes and parentheses.

Correctly on either side of the Atlantic, I might add!

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:12 (seventeen years ago) link

Re "UCP style": I think the sorts of rules we're talking about are fairly standard and aren't usually a matter of house style. At least within the United States, that is.

Then again, I've never seen UCP style, so for all I know, it could capitalize random nouns like in German.

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:15 (seventeen years ago) link

Yeah, you're right, far too standard for something like that.

For what it's worth, the copy of the manual I have at my desk, which I believe is two iterations out of date, is 801 pages not counting appendicies.

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:18 (seventeen years ago) link

One of the weirdest style quirks in the product I'm working on is capitalizing the word "capitol" when it refers to a state capitol building. Cf: "The Nebraska state Capitol was built in 1868."

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:19 (seventeen years ago) link

You're right. That sentence looks like it was written by James Frey.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:21 (seventeen years ago) link

In order to understand that comment, Kenan, would I have to actually read his book?

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:22 (seventeen years ago) link

song that's been stuck in my head all afternoon "who loves you" by the pooh sticks. great song, haven't heard it in AGES.

― otto midnight (otto midnight), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:23 (seventeen years ago) link

xpost No. You need only understand that Frey has a Irritating Habit of Capitalizing random Words throughout his Sentences.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:25 (seventeen years ago) link

It is because it's supposed to be a proper noun, John?

― daniel striped tiger (OutDatWay), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:26 (seventeen years ago) link

that IS a great song!

― molly d (mollyd), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:27 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh. Is it in that sort of ironic emphasis way where you're, like, "I'm going outside to Take the Air"? Or is he just...delusional/German/wrong?

― Laurel (Laurel), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:28 (seventeen years ago) link

Pretentious, I think. But that's all behind us now. No one even reads his blog anymore.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:31 (seventeen years ago) link

It is because it's supposed to be a proper noun, John?

I think this is the idea. Because if it's followed by the word "building," then it's supposed to be lowercase. But I'd find it a lot easier to swallow if the whole phrase was capitalized, like "the Nebraska State Capitol" (cf. "the White House").

― jaymc (jaymc), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:35 (seventeen years ago) link

The building is more important than the state, I guess.

― always crashing in other people's cars (kenan), Tuesday, 12 September 2006 20:38 (seventeen years ago) link

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