This Saturday at Littlefield in Brooklyn come see street fight radio and @CHAPOTRAPHOUSE start a laugh riot. https://t.co/MNxhvKkmw6 pic.twitter.com/68MiiBRkHj— Round Like Pizza (@StreetFightWCRS) April 1, 2019
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 16:11 (five years ago) link
I wish they let Matt Taibbi talk a little more
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 2 April 2019 16:35 (five years ago) link
Brendan James reviews The People's republic of Walmart and ponders the planned economy
A rich tradition of heterodox economics, mathematics, and computer science has materialized to answer this problem of calculation. But it is modern processing power, dwarfing the bandwidth available in the twentieth century, that truly rebukes the argument above. Consider computer scientist and economist Paul Cockshott who, in about two minutes, using only university equipment, claims to have run models that were able to optimize an economy “roughly the size of Sweden.” You get the feeling that the mammoth data centers at Amazon, Ford, or Foxconn might be capable of even more impressive calculations. And besides, to insist communist theory prove some perfect equation is either disingenuous or missing the point. The question is not whether planning is mathematically pristine, but whether it can allocate better than the market.The answer, to return to the material world, is yes it can. It’s true that under capitalism firms plan internally but compete with each other, a dance that keeps companies innovating new ways to capture surplus and, sometimes, inadvertently benefit regular people. This dynamic would not occur naturally in a planned economy; one cannot just seize Amazon or Walmart, socialize it, and call it a day. Phillips and Rozworski apparently recognize this (there is an entire chapter in The People’s Republic of Walmart titled “Nationalization Is Not Enough”) and point to an interesting line of thought from economist J. W. Mason: Banks tend to operate as a privatized Gosplan, where the slush fund of finance capital flows to whichever firm a group of Brooks Brothers-clad planners decide deserves investment, regardless of profitability. Market competition, in other words, is hardly the divine engine of innovation if so many firms are, as Mason writes, “born new each day by the grace of those financing it.”Even so, could planning replicate the market’s capacity to innovate? Ford’s former CEO Mark Fields certainly seemed to think so, declaring in 2016 that his company would soon “be able to use analytics to anticipate people’s needs, as opposed to people trying to tell us what they want.” And to the perennial taunt of the lizard-brained conservative—“I love seeing idiot millennials protest capitalism on their Apple-made IPHONES”—one may point out it was largely the market-immune Pentagon and Department of Energy, not Apple, that developed the batteries, algorithms, touch screens, and microprocessors our right-wing friend uses to tweet about the Muslim Caravan. Once again, none of this is to celebrate the actual decisions or practitioners of planning as it exists under capitalism, but to recognize its power and how else it might be put to use.
The answer, to return to the material world, is yes it can. It’s true that under capitalism firms plan internally but compete with each other, a dance that keeps companies innovating new ways to capture surplus and, sometimes, inadvertently benefit regular people. This dynamic would not occur naturally in a planned economy; one cannot just seize Amazon or Walmart, socialize it, and call it a day. Phillips and Rozworski apparently recognize this (there is an entire chapter in The People’s Republic of Walmart titled “Nationalization Is Not Enough”) and point to an interesting line of thought from economist J. W. Mason: Banks tend to operate as a privatized Gosplan, where the slush fund of finance capital flows to whichever firm a group of Brooks Brothers-clad planners decide deserves investment, regardless of profitability. Market competition, in other words, is hardly the divine engine of innovation if so many firms are, as Mason writes, “born new each day by the grace of those financing it.”
Even so, could planning replicate the market’s capacity to innovate? Ford’s former CEO Mark Fields certainly seemed to think so, declaring in 2016 that his company would soon “be able to use analytics to anticipate people’s needs, as opposed to people trying to tell us what they want.” And to the perennial taunt of the lizard-brained conservative—“I love seeing idiot millennials protest capitalism on their Apple-made IPHONES”—one may point out it was largely the market-immune Pentagon and Department of Energy, not Apple, that developed the batteries, algorithms, touch screens, and microprocessors our right-wing friend uses to tweet about the Muslim Caravan. Once again, none of this is to celebrate the actual decisions or practitioners of planning as it exists under capitalism, but to recognize its power and how else it might be put to use.
https://thebaffler.com/latest/stick-to-the-plan-james
― Simon H., Wednesday, 3 April 2019 17:02 (five years ago) link
read this by cosma shalizi if you are interested in central planning and computation http://crookedtimber.org/2012/05/30/in-soviet-union-optimization-problem-solves-you/
― flopson, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 17:37 (five years ago) link
https://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/styles/nodeimage/public/blogs_2018/08/2018_34_control_room_obs.jpg
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 17:46 (five years ago) link
I always enjoyed the little detail that the Cybersyn consoles had holders for one’s whiskey glass
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 19:27 (five years ago) link
likely a stafford beer addition though allende was fond of scotch
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 19:40 (five years ago) link
Pareene was also on Trillillies (recorded in McConnell's home state)
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 19:51 (five years ago) link
Laughing hard at the notion that central planning and democracy can co-exist. Laughing even more that they can co-exist thanks to some algorithms that would dictate all distribution of all resources.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 21:04 (five years ago) link
Laughing even harder at the ideas of pro-Marxists claiming that our governments should replicate Wal-Mart's planning methods to better market efficiency.
― Van Horn Street, Wednesday, 3 April 2019 21:10 (five years ago) link
it’s true, marx was famously anti-automation
― a photographer, satanist and ukip voter (bizarro gazzara), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 21:24 (five years ago) link
http://cdn-webimages.wimages.net/04f8e73a2e33f38293194faac1d4b4704d89b-wm.jpg?v=3
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 21:27 (five years ago) link
I'm in favor of panopticons and in favor of centralized cybernetic control of production
― moose; squirrel (silby), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 21:52 (five years ago) link
the government needs to promote ego death and self-abnegation
― moose; squirrel (silby), Wednesday, 3 April 2019 21:53 (five years ago) link
iirc the machines of loving grace cannot provide luxury gay space communism without full automation
― Dan I., Thursday, 4 April 2019 02:03 (five years ago) link
I’m at a tech conference this week and a keynote included this weird-brag sidebar of “what if said this technology... is being implemented in a system to help keep a European country safe?” with the implication surveillance, movement, and activity data was going to be aggregated to predict if people were terrorists or something
the crowd got quiet and we’re all looking at each other and mouthing “what the fuck”
― mh, Thursday, 4 April 2019 03:22 (five years ago) link
how very philip k dick
― a photographer, satanist and ukip voter (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 4 April 2019 06:56 (five years ago) link
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/pediaofinterest/images/c/c5/POI_Season_3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140628145335
― adam, Thursday, 4 April 2019 12:25 (five years ago) link
Oh lord is somebody going to pull the “democracy means completely unregulated markets” thing?
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Thursday, 4 April 2019 18:57 (five years ago) link
adam otm
― mh, Thursday, 4 April 2019 19:05 (five years ago) link
― flopson, Wednesday, April 3, 2019 10:37 AM (yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink
I'm too much of a dumb ass for this but it seems interesting
― ( ͡☉ ͜ʖ ͡☉) (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 4 April 2019 19:09 (five years ago) link
I still can't stand to listen to the show itself (Jesus Christ, their personalities!), but I'm happy to see that the CTH subreddit has become the de facto nexus of push-back (since “resistance” has become such a fraught and overloaded word) against fascism and general right-wing shit-headedness on reddit. Military and police propaganda (videos of soldiers coming home from tour to "surprise" their kids and spouses, police doing cutesy bullshit with their dogs) no longer goes unchallenged, republicans role-playing as "centrists" and "libertarians" routinely get called on their bullshit. The CTH subreddit makes reddit a better place.
― Dan I., Friday, 5 April 2019 18:33 (five years ago) link
true facts stated
― flappy bird, Friday, 5 April 2019 18:34 (five years ago) link
yeah the CTH subreddit is mostly good. there's a pretty broad left spectrum on there, but try-hard tankies are mocked, and they routinely brigade horrible right-wing subs and pester incels and Anime nazis. I support all of these activities.
― Simon H., Friday, 5 April 2019 18:52 (five years ago) link
also they routinely counter and make fun of every bad Amber take which is the correct approach
― Simon H., Friday, 5 April 2019 18:53 (five years ago) link
ugh yeah, i was made aware yesterday of a truly vile piece she wrote some time back about Warren where she invoked both Tracey Flick and Lisa Simpson, which is somehow idiotic, cruel, and hacky all at once.
― Evans on Hammond (evol j), Friday, 5 April 2019 18:59 (five years ago) link
what’s the non-amber chapo take on Warren?
― flopson, Friday, 5 April 2019 19:57 (five years ago) link
They haven't discussed her much AFAIK, beyond maybe briefly mentioning her being less bad than the other non-Bern options. Amber's the only one who's been in a room with her and I think her pessimism on the subject has carried over
― Simon H., Friday, 5 April 2019 20:00 (five years ago) link
I will say that barring the DNA fiasco they haven't spoken ill of her like they have with....basically every other non-Bernie nominee
― Simon H., Friday, 5 April 2019 20:03 (five years ago) link
He's on the Majority Report today. I think he's become a semi-regular on the Friday round-up shows, as Virgil Texas has too.
― We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Friday, 5 April 2019 20:23 (five years ago) link
ha, Gravel went on Pod Damn America (which I find unlistenable, oh well)
― Simon H., Monday, 8 April 2019 12:57 (five years ago) link
It’s an interesting conversation, that’s for sure, but I like the two Gravel Teenagers in Current Affairs more compelling
― Glower, Disruption & Pies (kingfish), Tuesday, 9 April 2019 23:45 (five years ago) link
ha I was the one who asked about Means TV, which they answered on the show
I loved the Moby Dick appreciation segment
― Simon H., Wednesday, 10 April 2019 00:02 (five years ago) link
yes that was excellent, i needed that encouragement bc I’ve been putting off reading it all year, and when I heard that there was literally a copy on my desk
― flappy bird, Wednesday, 10 April 2019 00:54 (five years ago) link
lets get a team together eh
📣📣📣SPECIAL EVENT📣📣📣May 1st: @CHAPOTRAPHOUSE #MayDay Pub Trivia.W/ @willmenaker @cushbomb @virgiltexas @ByYourLogic & Amber Frost.Prizes from @VersoBooks @thenewpress & morehttps://t.co/zhv3KG9S31 pic.twitter.com/v2Z2bLb6t3— Housing Works Bookstore Cafe (@HousingWorksBks) April 3, 2019
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 April 2019 19:24 (five years ago) link
my knowledge of lefty history is patchy; need to fly Simon in
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 11 April 2019 19:25 (five years ago) link
(also HOOS)
apparently they're each picking a category so expect 10 questions about anime furries, 10 about video games and another 10 about labor history
― Simon H., Thursday, 11 April 2019 19:34 (five years ago) link
and MME
― global tetrahedron, Friday, 12 April 2019 00:27 (five years ago) link
*MMA jfc
Felix's will be questions about the IRG and Hamas.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Friday, 12 April 2019 00:33 (five years ago) link
Brush up your Knausgaard
― JoeStork, Friday, 12 April 2019 00:38 (five years ago) link
anyone goin to the red scare show tmrw
― flappy bird, Friday, 12 April 2019 03:30 (five years ago) link
Lmao you couldn't pay me
― Simon H., Friday, 12 April 2019 03:32 (five years ago) link
cmon ill fly you out
― flappy bird, Friday, 12 April 2019 03:51 (five years ago) link
can't believe I wandered through brooklyn last weekend and no one accosted me demanding I show my socialist card
― mh, Friday, 12 April 2019 12:45 (five years ago) link
just get the tattoo. it saves time.
― We were never Breeting Borting (President Keyes), Friday, 12 April 2019 12:54 (five years ago) link
The Wal-Mart planned economy guys were a bit sanguine about potential sacrifices needing to be made to confront climate change. Semi-suspicious Matt sat this out because he would have argued with them.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, 14 April 2019 10:01 (five years ago) link
I finally got through that last Pareene show. They sure talk/laugh over each other a lot. Good Martin Van Buren material though.
― a Mets fan who gave up on everything in the mid '80s (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 14 April 2019 12:26 (five years ago) link
matt’s new inebriated history on conspiracy theories fkn rules
― Boris Bronfentrinker of Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan (bizarro gazzara), Thursday, 18 April 2019 07:55 (five years ago) link